Blood on the walls - vah full year results

[pauly7]

I think JB has the right strategy for the long term, and EY/NZ/SQ seem to agree with him, so I think he will be safe for now. The problem is the people under JB don't seem to be executing all that well - it started out good, but everything is stagnating now. Possibly due to cost controls to slow the burn rate? As a result, the attempt to increase yield hasn't worked, because people have run out of patience and don't want to pay similar fares to QF for an inferior experience.

I also believe JB has the right strategy (in large - don't think the 'virtual airline' alliance is working so well though).

I just think that when it comes down to the rubber hitting the road, VA really seems to struggle. Is it a JB issue with execution or is it that they have poor middle/senior management? Hard to tell from the outside. I do know people at the Village and morale isn't very good there at the moment - lots of problems and cost cuttings but that feels like a necessity....

 

[Noob]

Interesting. I took a few Qantaslink flights last week and they served the dinner service for about 120 passengers with impressive efficeincy and friendliness too. VA still can't serve 8 passengers in Business class without making a total mess of it most of the time, not to mention the frequently almost inedible food and lack of 2 choices. Sorry, straying OT again!

What the Roy Morgan Air Travel survey suppourts is that VA does offer a comparable & competitive premium service in domestic J class.

The underlined parts of your post above just don't mesh with reality - I've had poor experiences with both airlines but to say either makes a "total mess of it most of the time" couldn't be further from reality.

We have two very good airlines now, each with their own pros, cons, & areas for improvement - We all have our preferences & many now fly both, like myself.

The days of simply saying "The other one's rubbish" are over.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

He wasn't risking anything at all, he was fixing it!! And he was meeting the needs of his customers by giving them certainty about their future flights.

Yes, people were inconvenienced for 48 hours. Small price to pay for a big result.

And he was very lucky. As for not risking anything.............I leave that well alone.

Tell me, had he failed and Australia and the world lost a flagship airline, would you still crow about a small price to pay? It was a gamble. A gamble with an airline that was not his to gamble with.

 

[DaveB]

Hopefully the website issues have been a large part of the problem. Customers definitely don't ring these days if there is an alternative.
.
Regarding the 'leprechaun' my only issue is whether he took the high risk strategy without the blessing of the QF Board. From memory, I think he did get their concurrence, at least with the Chair prior to acting.
.
How can NZ post a $180m or so profit in comparison to QF and VA? Aren't they also still majority government owned?

 

[JohnPhelan]

Tell me, had he failed and Australia and the world lost a flagship airline, would you still crow about a small price to pay? It was a gamble. A gamble with an airline that was not his to gamble with.

Not sure how it could have failed, under Australian industrial law.

Several unions were acting as industrial terrorists - their actions were illegal - and Joyce's actions stopped that fully and immediately.

And what do you mean exactly by "not his to gamble with"? He had the full support of the Board (indeed, some people maintain he was acting at the behest of the Board).

 

[anat0l]

And he was very lucky. As for not risking anything.............I leave that well alone.

Tell me, had he failed and Australia and the world lost a flagship airline, would you still crow about a small price to pay? It was a gamble. A gamble with an airline that was not his to gamble with.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, just like our views on whether HSW really, really needs a pool

How can NZ post a $180m or so profit in comparison to QF and VA? Aren't they also still majority government owned?

NZ are puttering on well; no reason why they can't make a large profit. That said, no idea where they are making all the money.

Just wish they would put that extensive profit into far more intense investment in hard product and extending their network.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Not sure how it could have failed, under Australian industrial law.

And what do you mean exactly by "not his to gamble with"? He had the full support of the Board (indeed, some people maintain he was acting at the behest of the Board).

It's not the boards to gamble with either. Same as a heritage building is not the current owners toy to destroy.

The QF CEO (and the board if you like) did fail in fact. Remember the corporate raiders of the 80's? They were minnows to what they were trying to do. In my opinion (take it or leave it), they wanted QF to fail as they wanted to take QF and tear it apart limb by limb, sell off the scrap and end up with smaller and perhaps more profitable enities, but in the process, they would have destroyed one of Australias true success stories with glee.

They didn't care one iota about the travelling Australian public. All they cared about was their corporate pride and it seems fairly clear to me that they likely planned for the demise of QF, which they would have then blamed on the unions and the workers.

I can say with all honesty, I'm no union friend, but in that struggle, it was clearly the unions that saved QF, saved a national treasure, saved the worlds 2nd oldest (some argue the oldest) airline, saved many Australian jobs and gave you and all the other QF flyers an airline to continue flying with, all in spite of the best efforts of the QF board.

Christopher Skase destroyed himself trying to destroy MGM, it's a real shame the QF board failed to emulate their hero in such detail. In my opinion, the QF board are nothing more than trumped up scummy corporate raiders in the true 80's sense of greed and IMHO reside one step up the social ladder from a very selfish person. Citizenship should be stripped from any person actively engaging in such wanton destructive acts against Australian corporate heritage and the Australian people.

Of course this is my personal opinion which you may agree or disagree with. I really don't mind!

 

[JohnPhelan]

The foreign import (and the board if you like) did fail in fact. In my opinion (take it or leave it), he wanted QF to fail as he wanted to take QF and tear it apart limb by limb, sell off the scrap and end up with smaller and perhaps more profitable enities, but in the process, he would have destroyed one of Australias true success stories with gay abandon.


I can say with all honesty, I'm no union friend, but in that struggle, it was clearly the unions that saved QF, saved a national treasure, saved the worlds 2nd oldest (some argue the oldest) airline, saved many Australian jobs and gave you and all the other QF flyers an airline to continue flying with, all in spite of the best efforts of the pygmy poison people.

Total rubbish. It was Geoff Dixon et al who were wanting to break it up and sell it off. Joyce was trying to keep it all together.

And kindly cut out the xenophobic rot about him being a "foreign import". Like a lot of our population, he was born overseas but is an Australian citizen, just as much as anyone else.

At least he doesn't make comments about "pygmy poison" and "gay abandon". I'm sure you think you're very clever. Throwing insults about someone's ethnicity, sexuality and height says much more about you than it does about him.

 

[straitman]

Of course this is my personal opinion which you may agree or disagree with. I really don't mind!

I don't agree :!:

 

[nlagalle]

It's not the boards to gamble with either. Same as a heritage building is not the current owners toy to destroy.

The foreign import (and the board if you like) did fail in fact. Remember the corporate raiders of the 80's? They were minnows to what AJ was trying to do. In my opinion (take it or leave it), he wanted QF to fail as he wanted to take QF and tear it apart limb by limb, sell off the scrap and end up with smaller and perhaps more profitable enities, but in the process, he would have destroyed one of Australias true success stories with gay abandon.

He didn't care one iota about the travelling Australian public. All he cared about was his corporate pride and it seems fairly clear to me that he likely planned for the demise of QF, which he would have then blamed on the unions and the workers.

I can say with all honesty, I'm no union friend, but in that struggle, it was clearly the unions that saved QF, saved a national treasure, saved the worlds 2nd oldest (some argue the oldest) airline, saved many Australian jobs and gave you and all the other QF flyers an airline to continue flying with, all in spite of the best efforts of the pygmy poison people.

Christopher Skase destroyed himself trying to destroy MGM, it's a real shame AJ failed to emulate his hero in such detail. In my opinion, AJ and the QF board are nothing more than trumped up scummy corporate raiders in the true 80's sense of greed and IMHO reside one step up the social ladder from a child molester. He should have had his citizenship stripped and been deported for such wanton destructive acts against Australian corporate heritage and the Australian people.

Of course this is my personal opinion which you may agree or disagree with. I really don't mind!

I suggest you read up on who wanted to carve Qantas up. You have your facts wrong. As John said, it was Geoff Dixon and co who were lining up to sell it off!

And as someone who was caught up in both the industrial action and the grounding (stuck in London), I fully support the action he took as it ended the months of damage the unions were doing.

 

[mannej]

Christopher Skase destroyed himself trying to destroy MGM, it's a real shame AJ failed to emulate his hero in such detail. In my opinion, AJ and the QF board are nothing more than trumped up scummy corporate raiders in the true 80's sense of greed and IMHO reside one step up the social ladder from a child molester. He should have had his citizenship stripped and been deported for such wanton destructive acts against Australian corporate heritage and the Australian people.

Love or loathe him I would have thought that posts such as this were contrary to the AFF ethos.
The xenophobic and homophobic references are bad enough, but the reference to his social standing as similar to a child molester is slanderous and surely contrary to what is acceptable on here...

 

[medhead]

Not sure how it could have failed, under Australian industrial law.

Several unions were acting as industrial terrorists - their actions were illegal - and Joyce's actions stopped that fully and immediately.

Illegal? No their actions were not illegal at all.

 

[anat0l]

Love or loathe him I would have thought that posts such as this were contrary to the AFF ethos.
The xenophobic and homophobic references are bad enough, but the reference to his social standing as similar to a child molester is slanderous and surely contrary to what is acceptable on here...

Not sure if they're against the AFF ethos, but I would say that view of AJ is not isolated out there at all. Just saying.

Illegal? No their actions were not illegal at all.

They weren't illegal, and AJ grounding wasn't illegal either. One looked "more illegal" than the other; of course it was the one that cut (or seemed to cut) harder / deeper.


This has taken quite a tangent. I'm still thinking that tomorrow's announcement of a loss will be broadly taken as not a big deal. There's plenty of one off hits to the bottom line which will have little impact next year, assuming that VA don't dawdle too much on the aftermath of those once-offs. Not to mention how many international (and very solvent) airlines that have bought a stake in the airline; do you really think they are sliding down the financial slippery-dip?

 

[medhead]

They weren't illegal, and AJ grounding wasn't illegal either. One looked "more illegal" than the other; of course it was the one that cut (or seemed to cut) harder / deeper.

You may care to note that I made no comment at all about the legality or otherwise of the AJ grounding.

I will maintain my view that AJ has his position, and gets paid the big biccies, to make sure things don't get to the point of grounding the airline. Despite being effective, the grounding was a failure of his leadership because he couldn't find a solution to the problem that cost less than $300 million (or whatever the cost was), IMO.

 

[Plutonus]

I can't see how Sabre is currently a "one-off cost". The integration with VA still needs a lot of work and appears to be "ongoing" for the next 648 years, judging by the current glacial pace...

 

[Deleted member 29185]

And kindly cut out the xenophobic rot about him being a "foreign import". Like a lot of our population, he was born overseas but is an Australian citizen, just as much as anyone else.

posts such as this were contrary to the AFF ethos.

Criticism accepted. My stance does not change. I made absolutely no homophobic snipes at all and in fact I do have a number of friends who have a different sexual preference to me and I'm not bothered by it at all. If you are referring to my use of the term "gay abandon" then may I suggest you google the meaning. As for xenophobic, anyone who knows my family and me personally will surely know that I'm about as far from xenophobic as I could be. However, anyone (either born in Oz or not) that acts contrary to the common welfare of Australia is certainly not welcome in my home. I cannot recall many quality CEOs who have closed their companies doors to prove a point against the unions......especially not a company the size of Qantas. The concept that the move was without risk is just fantasy.

But given this thread is about VAs looming profit results and since it appears it was one brief assumption by me that derailed it, I'll attempt to bring it back on track by posting details of an upcoming customer loyalty summit in MEL with VFFs Phil Gunter speaking about (amongst others) - Evolving loyalty programs and having very active feedback from customers

 

[BAM1748]

Anyway, Virgin's results are woeful.

M

 

[mono88]

I can't see how Sabre is currently a "one-off cost". The integration with VA still needs a lot of work and appears to be "ongoing" for the next 648 years, judging by the current glacial pace...

I think you will find that companies seem to report "one-offs" of some nature every year, the wording just changes. Re the VA result, most of what JB is doing is of a long term nature and VA's results will reflect that. The results need to show progress being made

 

[BAM1748]

I think you will find that companies seem to report "one-offs" of some nature every year, the wording just changes. Re the VA result, most of what JB is doing is of a long term nature and VA's results will reflect that. The results need to show progress being made

They should show progress, but they don't as they had a downgrade and not on budget. (Even if that budget was a loss)

 

[maninblack]

Still OT but whilst we are here.

maninblack, I have to ask when did you last fly VA business?

Last week! But my two main destinations on VA are OOL and CNS and I think both have shoddy catering. That said my breakfast out of MEL a few weeks ago was hideous. Supposedly a fritatta with bacon and something indescribable. What can I say!

What the Roy Morgan Air Travel survey suppourts is that VA does offer a comparable & competitive premium service in domestic J class.

The underlined parts of your post above just don't mesh with reality - I've had poor experiences with both airlines but to say either makes a "total mess of it most of the time" couldn't be further from reality.

Whilst I would agree both airlines have their strengths and weaknesses the QF product is more consistent still today. My experience of VA which is now many flights is that their J service is still very hit and miss. Okay, Maybe my statement exagerates a little but not much. That's why I expressed some surprise at the Roy Morgan research. But yes I have had a few flights where the service was excellent, but I think too many where it has not been. I note that my flight coming back from CNS recently there was,
No lounge (yes it's being built sometime)
No priority boarding (never is in CNS, don't know why)
No mocktail (seems to have gone)
No pillow or blanket (QF always has on CNS service)
Only one meal choice (serving the mornings leftovers I think)
Wine was 'tres ordinaire' (QF has way better wines but I'm being a pedant here perhaps)

As always YMMV

This has all been a bit OT but just answering the questions.