Answered - Better Cards Than Amex Post April 15? | Australian Frequent Flyer
Australian Frequent Flyer

Welcome to Australia's leading independent Frequent Flyer and Travel Resource since 1998!
Our site contains tons of information that will improve your travel experience.

Joining AFF is fast, simple & absolutely free - register now and take immediate advantage of these great BENEFITS.

Once registered, this box will disappear. And you will see fewer advertisements :)

Answered Better Cards Than Amex Post April 15?

Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
58
Is anyone considering switching to a non-Amex card for everyday spend, post April 15?

As far as I can see, even with the devaluation in points earn and transfer rates, Amex still comes out marginally on top when compared to other banks.

Even with the top tier cards from St. George, Westpac, NAB, ANZ etc, the effective earn rate is still only 0.5-0.75 points per dollar after converting to Krisflyer or Velocity. That puts the Amex Explorer and Platinum Edge Cards in front at 1-1.5 points per dollar.

One exception here would be the NAB Rewards Signature card earning 2.5 NAB Rewards points/$ at major department stores, equating to 1.66 Velocity points per dollar when transferred.

Even though the devaluation is a big kick in the stomach, I think I'll be sticking with my Amex Platinum Edge or Explorer going forward.

...Unless anyone has found something better? I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
58
I agree, the Explorer/PlatEdge combo has gone from being more than twice as good as everyone else to being slightly better.
I'm sure that's no coincidence.
I have no trouble spending the travel credit each year, so they're effectively zero cost to me, why would I ditch them?
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
186
Is anyone considering switching to a non-Amex card for everyday spend, post April 15?

As far as I can see, even with the devaluation in points earn and transfer rates, Amex still comes out marginally on top when compared to other banks.

Even with the top tier cards from St. George, Westpac, NAB, ANZ etc, the effective earn rate is still only 0.5-0.75 points per dollar after converting to Krisflyer or Velocity. That puts the Amex Explorer and Platinum Edge Cards in front at 1-1.5 points per dollar.

One exception here would be the NAB Rewards Signature card earning 2.5 NAB Rewards points/$ at major department stores, equating to 1.66 Velocity points per dollar when transferred.

Even though the devaluation is a big kick in the stomach, I think I'll be sticking with my Amex Platinum Edge or Explorer going forward.

...Unless anyone has found something better? I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this.
NAB rewards transfers to Velocity 2:1 so you’re looking at 1.25:1 at a small number of stores and half that at most others.

I currently have the Platinum Edge but the regular and govt rewards are so bad I will dump in April and look to get my partner to get a Velocity Platinum (1.25 VFF / $) if a decent sign up bonus comes along, and then churn myself in 18 months.

Back up cards are Coles MC (0.87 VFF / $ + regular 15% Flybuys bonuses + free same day delivery from Coles online + no international transaction fees) and St George Amplify (0.75 KF / $ + 10% birthday bonus).
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,902
Is anyone considering switching to a non-Amex card for everyday spend, post April 15?

As far as I can see, even with the devaluation in points earn and transfer rates, Amex still comes out marginally on top when compared to other banks.
Despite all the dummy spitting about cancelling all Amexes it will still remain the best points earning for many types of spend. Add to that more transfer destinations than most.

While you indicate marginally on top, certainly for some of my spend it will be 50-100% better. Other spend will be 21 % better.
 

mrtupperware

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
106
The Explorer / plat edge combo is useless post April, bonus categories are gone and transfer rates are the same


I agree, the Explorer/PlatEdge combo has gone from being more than twice as good as everyone else to being slightly better.
I'm sure that's no coincidence.
I have no trouble spending the travel credit each year, so they're effectively zero cost to me, why would I ditch them?
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
186
The Explorer / plat edge combo is useless post April, bonus categories are gone and transfer rates are the same
I can still see the value in having both if that suits you - effective 1.5 point / $ in supermarkets on the Edge, 1 point / $ for everything else on the Explorer - but yes, no value (or harm) in having them merged as everything credits to the same Ascent program post April.
 

andye

Established Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,746
Virgin
Platinum
Flights
My Map
I plan Charge/Edge/Reserve.

I can't find anything that comes close for me particularly with statement credits (and a bit of Local Champ) in the mix.

Will churn Visa/MC. 18 months is too long to be without the higher earn rates for me to churn Amex
 

Mr_Orange

Established Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
4,461
Flights
My Map
I plan Charge/Edge/Reserve.

I can't find anything that comes close for me particularly with statement credits (and a bit of Local Champ) in the mix.

Will churn Visa/MC. 18 months is too long to be without the higher earn rates for me to churn Amex
This is the thing about Amex.

If you choose to have the Charge, it makes no sense not to have the Reserve (free and with $400 travel credit) and the Edge for its higher supermarket earn.

I don't feel like I'm going to get best value out of the Charge going forward so if I'm going to can the Charge, I can't be bothered keeping the other 2 especially since I would start paying an AF on the Reserve.

For me, I am removing all AFs from my life and the stress of chasing value from the card benefits by moving to HSBC Premier World Mastercard. 1ppd earn rate and 2:1 conversion rate to airline miles including SQ, CX and VA or I might just chop these points in for gift cards.

I'll continue to churn QF cards for their sign on bonuses which will keep that balance ticking over so I continue to fly domestic and TT J.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2014
Messages
58
they're effectively zero cost to me, why would I ditch them?
The Explorer / plat edge combo is useless post April,
as piratematerial says, it's still 1.5 KF or VA per $ at supermarkets and 1 per $ everywhere else.
How is that "useless" when no Visa or MC can match let alone beat that?

If I wasn't able to spend the annual fee on travel and therefore the combo cost me $595pa then I might consider my options, but even after the end of the world the April enhancement I'd be worse off without them.
 

burmans

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
6,565
Flights
My Map
Great that someone started this thread as I have been intending to do the same myself. However my take on this is slightly different in that I really don't see any card as being of much value in regards to everyday spend. So I need to look at what my options are instead of everyday spend and that is signon bonuses.

The maths are fairly compelling, even at lets say .75 ppd with a requirement to meet $4k spend to gain lets say 100Kpoints that 4K (a real card in the market) spend yields me 103K. And then I churn and repeat. Even if I chose the best card in the market with a differential of .75ppd I'd need to be spending well over $100K of every day spend to get anything close.

What this latest devaluation has made very clear is that everyday spend is not where the money is to be made.
 

LadyC

Established Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
2,273
I also run the Explorer/Platinum Edge combo. I combine this with my St George Amplify for non Amex spend and churn Qantas cards. Nothing changing for me at this point in time.
 

andye

Established Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,746
Virgin
Platinum
Flights
My Map
Great that someone started this thread as I have been intending to do the same myself. However my take on this is slightly different in that I really don't see any card as being of much value in regards to everyday spend. So I need to look at what my options are instead of everyday spend and that is signon bonuses.

The maths are fairly compelling, even at lets say .75 ppd with a requirement to meet $4k spend to gain lets say 100Kpoints that 4K (a real card in the market) spend yields me 103K. And then I churn and repeat. Even if I chose the best card in the market with a differential of .75ppd I'd need to be spending well over $100K of every day spend to get anything close.

What this latest devaluation has made very clear is that everyday spend is not where the money is to be made.
Yes but unless your annual spend is <$20k per year or you can churn >5 cards a year, you would still be better off keeping a better-earning card (with an offset annual fee) and churning on the side
How you calculate the offset point for that card will depend on fee, tax deductibility, spend, incremental point value, hard benefits, statement credits and usable travel credits
 

hossein_au

Established Member
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,457
as piratematerial says, it's still 1.5 KF or VA per $ at supermarkets and 1 per $ everywhere else.
Not arguing with the point you are trying to make, but aren't these numbers mixing the pre- and post-April numbers? Best case scenario, you either get up to 3 KF per $ pre-April (Edge, supermarkets), or you get up to 1.125 KF per $ post-April (Charge, almost everywhere). Or am I missing something?
 
Last edited:

hossein_au

Established Member
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,457
Great that someone started this thread as I have been intending to do the same myself. However my take on this is slightly different in that I really don't see any card as being of much value in regards to everyday spend. So I need to look at what my options are instead of everyday spend and that is signon bonuses.

The maths are fairly compelling, even at lets say .75 ppd with a requirement to meet $4k spend to gain lets say 100Kpoints that 4K (a real card in the market) spend yields me 103K. And then I churn and repeat. Even if I chose the best card in the market with a differential of .75ppd I'd need to be spending well over $100K of every day spend to get anything close.

What this latest devaluation has made very clear is that everyday spend is not where the money is to be made.
While I agree with the way you think, for me the issue is scalability; one can only churn so many cards per year (I have already started getting knocked back by pickier banks).
 

andye

Established Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,746
Virgin
Platinum
Flights
My Map
Not arguing with the point you are trying to make, but aren't these numbers mixing the pre- and post-April numbers? You either get up to 3 KF per $ pre-April (Edge), or you get up to 1.125 KF per $ post-April (Charge). Or am I missing something?
Edge will continue to earn 3MR/$ at supermarkets which will transfer to 1.5 KF post-deval
Edge is also fully offset by travel credit so (almost*) no harm in keeping in addition to Charge if you can justify the latter

* assuming you would have otherwise used the TC and the Edge credit limit doesn't affect your ability to churn due to total credit limits
 
Last edited:

hossein_au

Established Member
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,457
Edge will continue to earn 3MR/$ at supermarkets which will transfer to 1.5 KF post-deval
Edge is also fully offset by travel credit so (almost*) no harm in keeping in addition to Charge if you can justify the latter

* assuming you would have otherwise used the TC and the Edge credit limit doesn't affect your ability to churn due to total credit limits
Oh ok, I did not realised Edge's earn rate for supermarkets will not change. I will very probably keep the Charge (and Reserve of course); Explorer will need to go; and sounds like I might, just might, keep the Edge as well (I have minimal supermarket expense, but reasonable need for petrol).
 

burmans

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
6,565
Flights
My Map
Yes but unless your annual spend is <$20k per year or you can churn >5 cards a year, you would still be better off keeping a better-earning card (with an offset annual fee) and churning on the side
How you calculate the offset point for that card will depend on fee, tax deductibility, spend, incremental point value, hard benefits, statement credits and usable travel credits
Well you also need to consider opportunity cost, i.e. if I keep my current Platinum Edge Amex this prevents me gaiin a sign bonus and migarting to a better card like say the explorer. Incidentally I do think churning >5 times a year is definitely achievable.

Yes, I probably will keep one of my cards as an earning card but taking my scernario above, if I'm getting something like 500K in signon bonuses the difference between card earn of maybe 5K on my additonal annual spend isn't really floating my boat and/or worthy or that much time on analysis.
 

theblank

Established Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
1,307
As far as I can see, even with the devaluation in points earn and transfer rates, Amex still comes out marginally on top when compared to other banks.
you are comparing too early, wait until afterwards when the banks drop their transfer rates. Westpac already has (november)
 

WendyFFF

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
14
Great that someone started this thread as I have been intending to do the same myself. However my take on this is slightly different in that I really don't see any card as being of much value in regards to everyday spend. So I need to look at what my options are instead of everyday spend and that is signon bonuses.
Word: Referral bonuses

I seemed to get even ref pts from friends app'ing for qantas plat instead of explorer (my card) and AMEX own website on the referral site has language to support this.

e.g. I earned 180k 6x refs + 100k signup and the cap is 200k a year (which is weird since ref is 30k and it's like 6.6666666)

Since I am a serial entrepreneur with a sizeable network and this helps me practicing my elevator pitches

I've developed a set of templates too and doing that challenges me to find best pts earning ways :)

AMEX is still pretty much the only issuer who does this, banks should realise the benefit of doing this.

Plus these don't burn enquiry's.
 

Community Statistics

Threads
84,843
Messages
1,983,993
Members
52,189
Latest member
Nicky08
Top