Best Debit and Credit Cards - Exchange Rates

[Renato1]

I just read the Knowledge Centre articles on the two types of cards, and unsurprisingly they came up with what I had already concluded were the two best cards.

I used the 28 Degree Mastercard on my last two trips, and it was the best at the time, because I'd load two or three thousand dollars into it from my bank account using my smart phone, wait a few days, then withdraw the cash at the ATM. Unfortunately, they went and put a 3% ATM withdrawal fee on the card, so I went looking for another card, and people at the Ice In Space forum put me onto the Citibank card for ATM withdrawals.

But the prime criterion for me is exchange rate. The 28 Degree Mastercard exchange rate is that at xe.com (XE - The World's Trusted Currency Authority)

The xe.com rate was the best rate I had ever seen among any of the cards I had at the time. I was so skeptical that I bought a Trumpers Shave soap puck on-line from London for 10 pounds, and carefully monitored the exchange rates at xe.com for three days till the transaction came through, and confirmed that 28 Degree Mastercard did indeed charge me at the Xe.com rate.

I checked the Citibank card rate, which is apparently a Visa rate, and that rate varied to the xe.com rate in the third decimal point on the day I checked - which was a negligible difference.

Neither of the two articles in the Knowledge database explicitly state what the exchange rates are for the cards that are recommended.

One article mentioned in passing that Qantas Cash charged a few points on the exchange rate - and I find that concerning because, in my opinion, a Red flag should have been raised instead.

On the days I've checked Qantas Cash, the exchange rates at Qantas Cash varied by between 6 and 8% on the major currencies compared to the Xe.com rate. Thus, in my opinion, unless utterly desperate for Frequent Flyer points, anyone would have to be nuts to use Qantas cash when travelling overseas.

In any three month trip, I typically spend around $15,000 overseas on car hire and accommodation and cash for living. I absolutely don't feel like giving Qantas Cash $900 that I don't have to, when I can use the 28 Degree Mastercard or Citibank Visa debit card instead.
Regards,
Renato

P.S. - I don't know what exchange rates Westpac and ANZ cards charge on overseas transactions. All I know is that they always seemed to be worse than the xe.com rate, and that I'd be hit with a 2.5% to 3% fee as well.

 

[get me outta here]

Just wondering how the Bankwest Platinum Mastercard stacked up w' xe, if you looked at it.

I just read the Knowledge Centre articles on the two types of cards, and unsurprisingly they came up with what I had already concluded were the two best cards.

I used the 28 Degree Mastercard on my last two trips, and it was the best at the time, because I'd load two or three thousand dollars into it from my bank account using my smart phone, wait a few days, then withdraw the cash at the ATM. Unfortunately, they went and put a 3% ATM withdrawal fee on the card, so I went looking for another card, and people at the Ice In Space forum put me onto the Citibank card for ATM withdrawals.

But the prime criterion for me is exchange rate. The 28 Degree Mastercard exchange rate is that at xe.com (XE - The World's Trusted Currency Authority)

The xe.com rate was the best rate I had ever seen among any of the cards I had at the time. I was so skeptical that I bought a Trumpers Shave soap puck on-line from London for 10 pounds, and carefully monitored the exchange rates at xe.com for three days till the transaction came through, and confirmed that 28 Degree Mastercard did indeed charge me at the Xe.com rate.

I checked the Citibank card rate, which is apparently a Visa rate, and that rate varied to the xe.com rate in the third decimal point on the day I checked - which was a negligible difference.

Neither of the two articles in the Knowledge database explicitly state what the exchange rates are for the cards that are recommended.

One article mentioned in passing that Qantas Cash charged a few points on the exchange rate - and I find that concerning because, in my opinion, a Red flag should have been raised instead.

On the days I've checked Qantas Cash, the exchange rates at Qantas Cash varied by between 6 and 8% on the major currencies compared to the Xe.com rate. Thus, in my opinion, unless utterly desperate for Frequent Flyer points, anyone would have to be nuts to use Qantas cash when travelling overseas.

In any three month trip, I typically spend around $15,000 overseas on car hire and accommodation and cash for living. I absolutely don't feel like giving Qantas Cash $900 that I don't have to, when I can use the 28 Degree Mastercard or Citibank Visa debit card instead.
Regards,
Renato

P.S. - I don't know what exchange rates Westpac and ANZ cards charge on overseas transactions. All I know is that they always seemed to be worse than the xe.com rate, and that I'd be hit with a 2.5% to 3% fee as well.

 

[Renato1]

Just wondering how the Bankwest Platinum Mastercard stacked up w' xe, if you looked at it.

I'll be having a look at it later on in the week, because I'm curious too.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Ghostdunks]

XE - The World's Trusted Currency Authority[/URL])
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P.S. - I don't know what exchange rates Westpac and ANZ cards charge on overseas transactions. All I know is that they always seemed to be worse than the xe.com rate, and that I'd be hit with a 2.5% to 3% fee as well.

Just to clarify, 28Degrees doesn't actually use the xe.com rate, it uses the Mastercard rate as that is the credit card network the transactions are processed through. Most people(including me) just use xe.com rate as a comparison rate as its easily accessible to everyone, and is a good approximation of the rate you'll get. The rate that 28Degrees uses(along with Bankwest Platinum Mastercard) is the Mastercard rate, an indication of the rate you'll get from them is here: https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

The corresponding Visa foreign exchange rate(usec with Visa based cards like the Citibank Plus card) is here: Exchange Rate Calculator | Visa USA

With regards to the exchange rates Westpac and ANZ(and other providers) charge, this is again dependent on the type of card they're offering VISA, Mastercard or Amex, not the bank. ie. you'll get a different exchange rate from a Westpac Visa card vs a Westpac Mastercard. This base rate will be based on the type of card it is(Visa or Mastercard), and then each bank will add their own foreign exchange fee on top of it, 2.5% to 4%...

 

[Renato1]

Just to clarify, 28Degrees doesn't actually use the xe.com rate, it uses the Mastercard rate as that is the credit card network the transactions are processed through. Most people(including me) just use xe.com rate as a comparison rate as its easily accessible to everyone, and is a good approximation of the rate you'll get. The rate that 28Degrees uses(along with Bankwest Platinum Mastercard) is the Mastercard rate, an indication of the rate you'll get from them is here: https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

The corresponding Visa foreign exchange rate(usec with Visa based cards like the Citibank Plus card) is here: Exchange Rate Calculator | Visa USA

With regards to the exchange rates Westpac and ANZ(and other providers) charge, this is again dependent on the type of card they're offering VISA, Mastercard or Amex, not the bank. ie. you'll get a different exchange rate from a Westpac Visa card vs a Westpac Mastercard. This base rate will be based on the type of card it is(Visa or Mastercard), and then each bank will add their own foreign exchange fee on top of it, 2.5% to 4%...

I had never heard of xe.com until I rang 28 Degree Mastercard and asked them what exchange rate they used. The woman said "xe.com" and spelt it out for me so that I could look it up.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Ghostdunks]

I had never heard of xe.com until I rang 28 Degree Mastercard and asked them what exchange rate they used. The woman said "xe.com" and spelt it out for me so that I could look it up.
Regards,
Renato

Can 100% guarantee you that is not correct. She was either saying that because she's cough at her job and doesn't know any better OR she told you xe.com as the most easily accessible/well known site which will give you a good approximation of the rate, rather than spell out that link I gave you. Either way, what she told you is inaccurate.

Look up the PDS for the 28degrees card, can guarantee you there will be no mention of xe.com or any other external website with no links to 28degrees whatsoever.

EDIT: Its on the 28degrees website itself in the FAQs section. FAQs | Handy Hints, Tips, and Answers | 28 Degrees Platinum MasterCard -> Using your card -> How is the foreign exchange rate calculated?

 

[medhead]

Isn't xe.com just showing the mid-market rate?

 

[burmans]

Isn't xe.com just showing the mid-market rate?

This is correct, it may be based on xe but you assume they want to make money, presumably by a small margin on the rate.

 

[Renato1]

Can 100% guarantee you that is not correct. She was either saying that because she's cough at her job and doesn't know any better OR she told you xe.com as the most easily accessible/well known site which will give you a good approximation of the rate, rather than spell out that link I gave you. Either way, what she told you is inaccurate.

Look up the PDS for the 28degrees card, can guarantee you there will be no mention of xe.com or any other external website with no links to 28degrees whatsoever.

EDIT: Its on the 28degrees website itself in the FAQs section. FAQs | Handy Hints, Tips, and Answers | 28 Degrees Platinum MasterCard -> Using your card -> How is the foreign exchange rate calculated?

Thanks, you are correct. I just did a quick comparison for the A$

Mastercard Xe.com
USD .7961 .79162
GBP .520667 .51981
Euro .700361 .70161

Only problem was the XE.com rate is live and varied in the fifth decimal place as I was writing it down. Interesting the half cent difference for the USD, while the Euro and Pound are much closer.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Ghostdunks]

Isn't xe.com just showing the mid-market rate?

Correcto mundo, hence why I was pointing out that's not the rate that 28degrees uses. Although the Mastercard rate that 28degrees uses can get quite close to the mid-market rate, due to the amount of forex they do daily, it would be inaccurate to say that 28degrees uses xe.com rate. It is a good approximation however, and I have an xe.com app on my phone which I refer to a lot while travelling, just to get an indication of what the final rate I'll get is.

 

[Canada]

Ok I looked into this before for my upcoming trip but now I have to decide. In the past I thought the Citibank and Anz Travel Cards looked the best. But was also told the Post Office Travel cards are good?

Any advice if:

-Travelling in August: Canada New York (bulk of money spent here I suspect) Hong Kong
-Do not want to use my AMEX cc because limit is high and I'll spend more than I can afford to pay back.
-Was going to use Qantas card to get the points even though I knew it wasn't the best card but now having 2nd thoughts.
-Just got a Velocity card but don't know much about it yet.
-Was going to use the Qantas for my spending money and the Velocity for my daughter's spending money.
-Accommodation is paid.
-Most expenditure will be my teenager shopping and local currency cash withdrawals.
-Can we take cash out at shops via a purchase the same way we can here? I did ask this of the Qantas person and they said yes however I wonder if there's a catch because otherwise everyone would just withdraw at the shop and not via the atm to avoid charges? i.e. they were saying that if I loaded in foreign currency (so i know what i've got to spend), and withdraw via extra cash when making a purchase, i would be avoiding any fees. Does that sound right?

Bear in mind the last time I travelled anywhere past Bali people used travellers' cheques! so any advise re cash or card greatly appreciated.

Hope that makes sense - I want a travel card, preferably one for me and one for my daughter. Might be best for my budget to load in foreign currency unless you think that's a crazy idea, especially given recent dip in aussie $ from Greek crisis.

Thanks everyone,

 

[RooFlyer]

Canada: If you are contemplating using Qantas card etc (debit cards) then you really must look at Citi Plus debit card. There are a couple of threads on it here. The FX rate you get is very close to spot and no o/s fees, or any fees (except for the occasional ATM fee).

You load your money (A$) onto it via the web (allow 3 days for clearance), then present the card in shops or at ATMs around the world and use it like you would in Australia; it will convert and deduct A$, very close to spot, usually. Some ATMs charge a fee (see other threads on this forum) but most don't. In Canada TD certainly doesn't charge a fee, and Royal Bank of Canada will. There are no Citi ATMs in Canada; I go there a hell of a lot but have not missed Citi ATMs. In USA and New York obviously Citi ATMs are widely available, but again, other banks' ATMs are often fee free.

I don't think Canadian merchants offer a 'cash out' facility. Canada is about 10 years behind Australia in electronic banking. Using your Citi card (and any card) will usually need a signature in Canada, even where it asks for a PIN. Even though your accommodation is pre paid, they will STILL want a credit card for 'security'. Don't use a debit card for hotel 'pre authorisations' (it will take forever for the funds to come back). Use any credit card not needed for travel - the funds will go back in a week or 2.

There is also a Citi phone application where you can check balances live (or almost live) and it gives you an automatic weekly report on account balance.

For a back-up credit card, hard to go past 28 Degrees Master Card. Bankwest card also gets good reviews.

 

[Canada]

Thank you so much. I will look into citibank plus. Shame we have to sign. I was going to leave one with my daughter (using pin ( and one with me. So i presume they don't have pay pass either in canada?

 

[Renato1]

Ok I looked into this before for my upcoming trip but now I have to decide. In the past I thought the Citibank and Anz Travel Cards looked the best. But was also told the Post Office Travel cards are good?

Any advice if:

-Travelling in August: Canada New York (bulk of money spent here I suspect) Hong Kong
-Do not want to use my AMEX cc because limit is high and I'll spend more than I can afford to pay back.
-Was going to use Qantas card to get the points even though I knew it wasn't the best card but now having 2nd thoughts.
-Just got a Velocity card but don't know much about it yet.
-Was going to use the Qantas for my spending money and the Velocity for my daughter's spending money.
-Accommodation is paid.
-Most expenditure will be my teenager shopping and local currency cash withdrawals.
-Can we take cash out at shops via a purchase the same way we can here? I did ask this of the Qantas person and they said yes however I wonder if there's a catch because otherwise everyone would just withdraw at the shop and not via the atm to avoid charges? i.e. they were saying that if I loaded in foreign currency (so i know what i've got to spend), and withdraw via extra cash when making a purchase, i would be avoiding any fees. Does that sound right?

Bear in mind the last time I travelled anywhere past Bali people used travellers' cheques! so any advise re cash or card greatly appreciated.

Hope that makes sense - I want a travel card, preferably one for me and one for my daughter. Might be best for my budget to load in foreign currency unless you think that's a crazy idea, especially given recent dip in aussie $ from Greek crisis.

Thanks everyone,

The real problem at the moment is whether the Aussie Dollar will keep falling heavily. If you think it will fall more than 5%, you get some protection with Qantas Cash. If not, the Citibank Plus account is the better option for its better exchange rate right now, than that of Qantas Cash.

Last time I was in Hong Kong back in 2009, our shopping experience wasn't like my brother and others had described. We walked down Nathan Road towards the Star Ferry. A few blocks back from the ferry on the left hand side of the road was a shop selling souveniers "Wholesale". You had to buy three or six items at their price. So my wife bought lots of stuff there. That night, going around the night markets, well it wasn't any point haggling - as the starting price for the exact same items was six or seven times what we'd paid without haggling. I think the idea was that we'd knock them down to two or three times what we had paid, and con ourselves into thinking we had a good deal.

The other odd thing on that trip to Hong Kong (it may have changed by now) was that for a while I was getting desperate, as ATM after ATM kept rejecting my cards. Six or seven ATMs later, we finally we came across a HSBC ATM which gave me some badly needed cash.

The other handy hint is how to get rid of the scores of people trying to sell you things on the street. They hold out their brochures in front of you, and being polite while saying no, we tend to walk around the hand with the brochure. That's it - you've shown them respect - they will keep badgering you to buy a new suit that you couldn't care less about. The trick is to just walk through their hand, letting your body push it aside - showing no respect. They then stop badgering you.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[RooFlyer]

The real problem at the moment is whether the Aussie Dollar will keep falling heavily. If you think it will fall more than 5%, you get some protection with Qantas Cash. If not, the Citibank Plus account is the better option for its better exchange rate right now, than that of Qantas Cash.

<snip>

I suggest there are several flaws in this analysis.

First - if you use Qantas Cash Card (QCC) in an ATM outside Australia, the following fees apply: AUD 1.95; USD 1.95; GBP 1.25; EUR 1.50; THB 70;NZD 2.50; SGD 2.50; HKD 15.00; CAD 2.00; JPY 160; AED 6.50. This is on top of any fee the ATM operator may charge. Citi Plus is fee free on most non Citi ATMs (see relevant thread on AFF where we have been naming free and charging ATMs around the world). Private ATMs will still charge a fee.

Second - If you run out of a specified currency on your QCC, and have to draw down on another currency, they charge you 3% of the transaction value. With Citi Plus your purchase in any foreign currency simply gets withdrawn from your A$ store, at close to spot.

But the biggest flaw in the argument I suggest is about movement in rates. Today (8 July), the rate for loading US$ onto the QCC is 0.7152. Spot, as I write this is 0.74481 on XE.com ; something close to this would apply if you spent US$ on your Citi Plus today. That's a 4% margin!! So rates have already 'moved' if you load A$ into US$ on the QCC. Spot would have to deteriorate by something like 7% for locking in QCC today to be a good option - and you would have to load all or the vast majority of your potential spend onto it now to 'lock in'. If you need to load more later, you've lost that advantage for the new quantity.

For C$ at the moment, the figures are 0.896 QCC and 0.94681 spot - a bit over 5% margin!

Citi Plus won't give you exactly spot - historically when I've calculated it, its been a margin of between 0.2% and 1% (depends on time of day when you do the conversion), but still bloody good.

Edit: This is the thread where various banks ATMs around the world are named as being fee free or charged.

 

[RooFlyer]

Thank you so much. I will look into citibank plus. Shame we have to sign. I was going to leave one with my daughter (using pin ( and one with me. So i presume they don't have pay pass either in canada?

Just asked a mate in Canada. Yes, pay pass (I assume you mean tap to pay without pin or sign) does occur in Canada, but not all stores have it. BUT it may not be the same with Aussie issued cards. I don't actually use it myself, so no experience.

Some stores will also allow cash out - but again with an Aussie card YMMV. I have a Canadian savings account and debit card and use that for my cash.

 

[Canada]

Thanks everyone
Citibank it is.
Off to the post office today to identify myself

 

[Renato1]

I suggest there are several flaws in this analysis.

First - if you use Qantas Cash Card (QCC) in an ATM outside Australia, the following fees apply: AUD 1.95; USD 1.95; GBP 1.25; EUR 1.50; THB 70;NZD 2.50; SGD 2.50; HKD 15.00; CAD 2.00; JPY 160; AED 6.50. This is on top of any fee the ATM operator may charge. Citi Plus is fee free on most non Citi ATMs (see relevant thread on AFF where we have been naming free and charging ATMs around the world). Private ATMs will still charge a fee.

Second - If you run out of a specified currency on your QCC, and have to draw down on another currency, they charge you 3% of the transaction value. With Citi Plus your purchase in any foreign currency simply gets withdrawn from your A$ store, at close to spot.

But the biggest flaw in the argument I suggest is about movement in rates. Today (8 July), the rate for loading US$ onto the QCC is 0.7152. Spot, as I write this is 0.74481 on XE.com ; something close to this would apply if you spent US$ on your Citi Plus today. That's a 4% margin!! So rates have already 'moved' if you load A$ into US$ on the QCC. Spot would have to deteriorate by something like 7% for locking in QCC today to be a good option - and you would have to load all or the vast majority of your potential spend onto it now to 'lock in'. If you need to load more later, you've lost that advantage for the new quantity.

For C$ at the moment, the figures are 0.896 QCC and 0.94681 spot - a bit over 5% margin!

Citi Plus won't give you exactly spot - historically when I've calculated it, its been a margin of between 0.2% and 1% (depends on time of day when you do the conversion), but still bloody good.

Edit: This is the thread where various banks ATMs around the world are named as being fee free or charged.

There isn't a flaw in my analysis. If the Aussie dollar falls dramatically, one would have been better off with Qantas Cash or any other card that had locked in the higher rate that the actual rate has fallen below. In turbulent currency times like now, there is a flight to quality - and that quality is in the world's reserve currency, the US dollar - which results in our dollar dropping. There's little point saying the Citibank Plus card is best in all circumstances - it may well be most of the time, but there will be times when it isn't.

I'm going to Europe, and so far I'm still better off with Citibank Plus. If suddenly the Greeks and the EU hug and make up, and the Euro rises against the AUD, I may wish I'd locked up some Euros in Qantas cash.

As for the withdrawal fees, I find them minuscule, since I always take out the maximum amount in order to minimize the number of withdrawals.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[RooFlyer]

Main point being that a 5% unfavourable change in spot doesn't change the equation as you indicated. Anyone weighing up the merits of both types of card need to be aware that it costs one 4% to 5% up front to load money into Qantas Cash Card. Any FX movement comes afterwards.

If one is chasing points, they are very expensive points.

 

[Canada]

So I've applied today for citibsnk. So you don't preload different currencies to citibank correct? You just use it exactly like am Australian debit card which you can take overseas and charges are great by the looks thanks for everyone's discussion, I've learned a lot.