Best Airline for Frequent Travel in Australia (split thread)

[nlagalle]

Why are all of these QFF WP's ganging up on this person?

The bottom line is that QANTAS is more expensive than other airlines and the frequent flyer program isn't as good as other airlines.

If you fly QANTAS you pay more and get less.

As long as people book QANTAS through loyalty instead of value for money QANTAS does not need to change.

If you are a QFF WP and paid for your flights out of your own pocket then you have thrown away an awful lot of money. Your money your choice.

Other airlines do offer good value and good service.

I'll still take QF over DJ / other airlines. I fly 90% domestic and wouldn't travel any other way.

 

[JeniSkunk]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Why are all of these QFF WP's ganging up on this person?

The bottom line is that QANTAS is more expensive than other airlines and the frequent flyer program isn't as good as other airlines.

If you fly QANTAS you pay more and get less.

As long as people book QANTAS through loyalty instead of value for money QANTAS does not need to change.

If you are a QFF WP and paid for your flights out of your own pocket then you have thrown away an awful lot of money. Your money your choice.

Other airlines do offer good value and good service.

extracta is probably talking about International options. 95% of my flying is International and there is loads of options. Qantas is just one of them, and not one I use very much. Perhaps if I lived in Sydney. If I have a bad experience with Qantas I certainly won't bother complaining here anyway, as this board has a VERY 'Qantas can do no wrong' attitude from a large number of posters.

That may be the case. But I can't tell because such detail isn't stated. What is stated by extracta is that anyone flying qantas is wasting their money. That just does stack up for domestic flying.

As for "a qantas can do no wrong" attitude. I tend to think it is more about pointing out reality when people make baseless claims about qantas personally more 2 worst flying experiences have been with qantas. But then I've had many more good experiences with qantas

extracta's assertion that Qantas is more expensive than other airlines is one I find myself in almost complete agreement with.
Looking at domestic travel, and excepting the lowest of the fare types, where what is included in a Qantas fare, and is a pay for extra on Virgin Blue, Qantas is more expensive both in absolute figures and value for money terms across the board than Virgin Blue.

The dates and flights I checked were for BNE-SYD 2 Nov 2010, SYD-BNE 4 Nov 2010.

Qantas:
Red e-deal $79
Super Saver $204
Flexi Saver $325
Fully Flexible $462
Business $600

Virgin Blue:
GO! Fare $59
Blue Saver $95
Flexible $285
Corporate Plus $399
Premium Economy $449

With the GO! Fare and the Blue Saver fares, checked luggage is an extra, so adding the $10 for checked baggage to both brings them up to $69 and $105 respectively.
Adding $10 for a drink and sandwich to the GO! Fare and the Blue Saver fares, brings them to totals of $79 and $115 respectively.

In terms of the assertion by dazz81, that this board is excessively pro-Qantas, such an assertion should not at all be surprising considering the marketspace dominance that Qantas has domesticaly.

I agree with medhead on the point of baseless claims being kicked hard. If a poster can't or won't back up a claim with hard facts, then that poster deserves to be kicked, hard.

Jenifur Charne

 

[extracta]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

That may be the case. But I can't tell because such detail isn't stated. What is stated by extracta is that anyone flying qantas is wasting their money. That just does stack up for domestic flying.

As for "a qantas can do no wrong" attitude. I tend to think it is more about pointing out reality when people make baseless claims about qantas personally more 2 worst flying experiences have been with qantas. But then I've had many more good experiences with qantas

I have no problem with people paying extra money to fly QANTAS, their money, their choice.

I personally would like to fly QANTAS and would not mind paying the extra money if they made just one change to their FF scheme.

Other airlines allow upgrades on request as long as a seat is available. There is no reason why QANTAS should not do this also. The money has already been paid to them through the frequent flyer scheme.

It would be good to see the WP's and SG's on this forum put some pressure on QANTAS to change their policy on upgrades. After all the WP's and SG's would probably benefit the most.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

It would be good to see the WP's and SG's on this forum put some pressure on QANTAS to change their policy on upgrades. After all the WP's and SG's would probably benefit the most.

Actually, they would probably lose out the most. At the moment, with the lottery process, those with the highest status are ones most likely to get the upgrade awarded from it. If it returned back to the situation where an upgrade is granted if U is available, then all would be competing equally for the same award availability. It is pretty hard to find premium award availability as it is

Now if other Platinum and Gold members started following suit and going off to competitors with better products or better frequent flyer programmes, then QF might start changing their programme to be less poor value

 

[drron]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I am not one of QF's biggest fans.My primary FF program is AA,preferred method of leaving Australia has been JAL BNE-NRT.I regularly have a go at QF in my TRs.However some of the criticism of QF is over the top-this thread is not an exception to that.The comments on old planes and the Q rewards card really dont stack up.The OP needs to explain.I do note that a google search of the screen name brings up the same name on a British Columbia Motorcycle blog-could he have fallen off his bike?:shock:
As to QF always being more expensive-really not relevant to me.My preferred fare is a DONE so doesn't matter what OW airline I use.Have looked at the other RTW fares and just dont suit me.
Domestically-QF dont fly out of MCY so again not relevant.My most common destination these days is DPO-QF is the only choice so again not relevant.Must say though this week I needed last minute flights to SYD.Unfortunately on Wednesday's limited MCY flights so had to fly out of BNE.QF at the time i wanted-$310,DJ-$360.And for paying $50 less I got lounge access and fed.
We are all different in our likes,dislikes,needs etc.For me I have taken a good deal of my business away from QF but that doesn't mean I cant defend them against unjustified criticism.

 

[markis10]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

extracta's assertion that Qantas is more expensive than other airlines is one I find myself in almost complete agreement with.
Looking at domestic travel, and excepting the lowest of the fare types, where what is included in a Qantas fare, and is a pay for extra on Virgin Blue, Qantas is more expensive both in absolute figures and value for money terms across the board than Virgin Blue.

Value for money is of course different for each person, for the VFR market (visiting friend/relatives) or what is predominately the in-frequent flyer, your assessment would partly stand up to scrutiny by most if not all in that bucket, however for the commercial traveler whose time is often of significant value while travelling, QF often presents far better value, or the only option in a lot of cases.

Try doing a days work in Cairns ex DRW or spending a week visiting clients in ROK/MKY/TSV & CNS with none of those cities having a competitive alternative flight wise or business rooms/lounge available from anyone other than QF. Try minimizing your time at the airport picking up a colleague using the flight information published by DJ on their website (not all airports publish their own version). Those advantages cost money to produce and thats reflected in the ticket, if we take those away, disregard flight frequency and frequent flyer points, then QF is better value for money (its just called Jetstar in this case), coming in at $49 for the days and route you listed.

 

[JeniSkunk]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Domestically-QF dont fly out of MCY so again not relevant.My most common destination these days is DPO-QF is the only choice so again not relevant.Must say though this week I needed last minute flights to SYD.Unfortunately on Wednesday's limited MCY flights so had to fly out of BNE.QF at the time i wanted-$310,DJ-$360.And for paying $50 less I got lounge access and fed.
We are all different in our likes,dislikes,needs etc.For me I have taken a good deal of my business away from QF but that doesn't mean I cant defend them against unjustified criticism.

Thanks for that information, drron.
I really should have done more checking on different dates and departure/arrival locations.
Might I ask which fare types your post refers to?

Jenifur Charne

 

[drron]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Thanks for that information, drron.
I really should have done more checking on different dates and departure/arrival locations.
Might I ask which fare types your post refers to?

Jenifur Charne

Of course you shouldn't have.This as I said was last minute.The QF was still a Red-e-deal,just expensive and there were no Go or Blue saver fares on DJ when I wanted to go.I did as I always do-checked on flight centre then went to QF to book when I knew they were the cheapest(actually I think JQ was about $25 cheaper but that was not enough to fly with them).

 

[straitman]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Thanks for that information, drron.
I really should have done more checking on different dates and departure/arrival locations.
Might I ask which fare types your post refers to?

Jenifur Charne

Of course you shouldn't have.This as I said was last minute.The QF was still a Red-e-deal,just expensive and there were no Go or Blue saver fares on DJ when I wanted to go.I did as I always do-checked on flight centre then went to QF to book when I knew they were the cheapest(actually I think JQ was about $25 cheaper but that was not enough to fly with them).

Stretching this out a bit I find that if you are able to book well ahead then DJ is often the cheaper but as the flights become closer then QF, due capacity, is the cheaper.
ie In context, you both are correct IMHO.

 

[medhead]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

extracta's assertion that Qantas is more expensive than other airlines is one I find myself in almost complete agreement with.
Looking at domestic travel, and excepting the lowest of the fare types, where what is included in a Qantas fare, and is a pay for extra on Virgin Blue, Qantas is more expensive both in absolute figures and value for money terms across the board than Virgin Blue.

Jenifur Charne

I only quoted your first post, but the subsequent discussion has highlighted that it is a very variable situation. That was the reason that I disagree with blanket statements that say Qantas is much more expensive. I'll put some numbers below that show a pretty decent picture, IMO.

I have no problem with people paying extra money to fly QANTAS, their money, their choice.

I personally would like to fly QANTAS and would not mind paying the extra money if they made just one change to their FF scheme.

I'm not going to get into the upgrade thing. But I will have to challenge your blanket statement that one must pay extra money to fly qantas or use their FF scheme.

I've booked 83 flights this year, between ADL and SYD, at an average cost of $115.91. I have done this by always looking for the cheapest fare. Mainly picking up flights during sales periods. 1 flight is on Tiger cost $75

12 flights have been with Virginblue at an average price of $108.67.
70 flights are with Qantas at an average cost of $117.01

I'm sorry but saving $8.30 per flight does not make up for not accessing the Qantas club.

those 70 Qantas flights have got me 1050 SC so Gold status and 75% to Platinum. So I've enjoyed free lounge access for 23 of those 70 flights. I've used my free QC pass to great benefit for my wife's aunt.
If I had of taken those flights with virgin blue at the average rate I would have got me silver status and about 1600 points short of gold. 83 flights and I still wouldn't have free lounge access!

I'm sorry but in my case the value just isn't there. Therefore I can't agree with your unqualified statement that flying qantas is a waste of money. Especially as I'm spending my own money and the benefits I get from spending an extra $8.30 are worth more than $8.30.

 

[kamchatsky]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I've booked 83 flights this year, between ADL and SYD, at an average cost of $115.91. I have done this by always looking for the cheapest fare. Mainly picking up flights during sales periods. 1 flight is on Tiger cost $75

You paid $75 for Tiger flight for SYD-ADL?! That's expensive

 

[JeniSkunk]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Of course you shouldn't have.This as I said was last minute.The QF was still a Red-e-deal,just expensive and there were no Go or Blue saver fares on DJ when I wanted to go.I did as I always do-checked on flight centre then went to QF to book when I knew they were the cheapest(actually I think JQ was about $25 cheaper but that was not enough to fly with them).

Stretching this out a bit I find that if you are able to book well ahead then DJ is often the cheaper but as the flights become closer then QF, due capacity, is the cheaper.
ie In context, you both are correct IMHO.

I only quoted your first post, but the subsequent discussion has highlighted that it is a very variable situation. That was the reason that I disagree with blanket statements that say Qantas is much more expensive. I'll put some numbers below that show a pretty decent picture, IMO.

Quite agreed medhead. As has been shown by the posts of both drron and Straitman, the blanket claim in my initial post in this thread was in error.

I'm sorry but saving $8.30 per flight does not make up for not accessing the Qantas club.

those 70 Qantas flights have got me 1050 SC so Gold status and 75% to Platinum. So I've enjoyed free lounge access for 23 of those 70 flights. I've used my free QC pass to great benefit for my wife's aunt.
If I had of taken those flights with virgin blue at the average rate I would have got me silver status and about 1600 points short of gold. 83 flights and I still wouldn't have free lounge access!

I'm sorry but in my case the value just isn't there. Therefore I can't agree with your unqualified statement that flying qantas is a waste of money. Especially as I'm spending my own money and the benefits I get from spending an extra $8.30 are worth more than $8.30.

The point you make about there being no value in fare savings over missing lounge access is well taken, medhead.
For a Velocity nothing red such as myself, lounge access costs $30 per visit, so that average $8.30 airfare saving with DJ you mention becomes $21.70 more expensive than QF once you factor the pay for access to the DJ lounge into the costings.

Jenifur Charne

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

The point you make about there being no value in fare savings over missing lounge access is well taken, medhead.
For a Velocity nothing red such as myself, lounge access costs $30 per visit, so that average $8.30 airfare saving with DJ you mention becomes $21.70 more expensive than QF once you factor the pay for access to the DJ lounge into the costings.

Only if you would actually pay $30 to enter the lounge

Dave

 

[JohnK]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I would love to fly QANTAS but everytime I start doing the research on an upcoming flight I find that QANTAS are more expensive, have tighter ticketing restrictions and the frequent flyer program is not as good as others.

Qantas has much cheaper airfares than DJ most times, less restrictive red e-deal airfares and you tell me an airline that gives out 1,000 points/miles for an ~232 mile flight costing $55 and also served 2 beers?

Back OT. It would be good if the OP could elaborate as requested by several people here and so the concerns can be addressed appropriately.

Lets not jump to conclusions, they could be in the US and asleep after venting before dinner, lets at least wait 24 hours before our suspicions are confirmed?

Time is up....

 

[extracta]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I'm not going to get into the upgrade thing. But I will have to challenge your blanket statement that one must pay extra money to fly qantas or use their FF scheme.

I've booked 83 flights this year, between ADL and SYD, at an average cost of $115.91. I have done this by always looking for the cheapest fare. Mainly picking up flights during sales periods. 1 flight is on Tiger cost $75

12 flights have been with Virginblue at an average price of $108.67.
70 flights are with Qantas at an average cost of $117.01

I'm sorry but saving $8.30 per flight does not make up for not accessing the Qantas club.

those 70 Qantas flights have got me 1050 SC so Gold status and 75% to Platinum. So I've enjoyed free lounge access for 23 of those 70 flights. I've used my free QC pass to great benefit for my wife's aunt.
If I had of taken those flights with virgin blue at the average rate I would have got me silver status and about 1600 points short of gold. 83 flights and I still wouldn't have free lounge access!

I'm sorry but in my case the value just isn't there. Therefore I can't agree with your unqualified statement that flying qantas is a waste of money. Especially as I'm spending my own money and the benefits I get from spending an extra $8.30 are worth more than $8.30.

I rarely fly domestic, my comments have been directed towards international flights.

But as you have brought up domestic I thought I would have a look at a few dates and the comparisons between DJ and QANTAS.

It appears to me that QANTAS is more expensive domestically as well.

I checked SYD - ADL return, one of the dates was out 18 AUG, back 24 AUG.

The red e-deal flights which were the cheapest fares on QANTAS ranged from $133 through $279 one way.

The cheapest fare on DJ was $89. I think you have to pay baggage there as well.

I'm sure that plenty of people get great value from QANTAS, there certainly are a lot of loyal followers on this forum.

I'm just trying to work out why?? Is there something I am missing here.

I have not flown QANTAS for over 25 years and cannot comment on their operation.

Are you treated incredibly well on QANTAS or is the food fantastic, or is there another reason why QANTAS has all of these loyal followers.

The responses I have read from the loyal followers all appear to be trying to justify high prices or talk about the odd competitive fair.

Nobody seems to be supporting QANTAS on the basis of:

Customer service

Food quality

Happy friendly staff

How great the FF program is

etc etc

Why??

 

[markis10]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I have not flown QANTAS for over 25 years and cannot comment on their operation.......

Nobody seems to be supporting QANTAS on the basis of:

Customer service

Food quality

Happy friendly staff

How great the FF program is

etc etc

Why??

Maybe its time you should try them, FF programs only work if you are a FF :shock:

 

[nlagalle]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I rarely fly domestic, my comments have been directed towards international flights.

But as you have brought up domestic I thought I would have a look at a few dates and the comparisons between DJ and QANTAS.

It appears to me that QANTAS is more expensive domestically as well.

I checked SYD - ADL return, one of the dates was out 18 AUG, back 24 AUG.


I'm just trying to work out why?? Is there something I am missing here.

I have not flown QANTAS for over 25 years and cannot comment on their operation.

Are you treated incredibly well on QANTAS or is the food fantastic, or is there another reason why QANTAS has all of these loyal followers.

The responses I have read from the loyal followers all appear to be trying to justify high prices or talk about the odd competitive fair.

Nobody seems to be supporting QANTAS on the basis of:

Customer service

Why??

My 2c worth. I fly mostly domestic, at least 90%. To me I get the following:

Lounge access. I often get to the airport early in the morning to beat the traffic so the breakfast there is quite good for me.

Seating: I get seating where I want on the plane.

FF Program: OK it's got its flaws in some places, but what program is perfect? What i love now is the ASA's get credits and points. So a JASA to KGI this year will net me 240SC's plus points. Also DJ aren't as good for INT travel.

Staff: Lately I've seen a change, much friendlier etc, happy to help.

I've also seen QF sales at the same or cheaper than DJ. All depends on when they are having the sales.

 

[dajop]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

How great the FF program is

My belief that this is the biggest factor that keep people loyal to Qantas, and on occasions creates a tendency to see QF through the proverbial "rose coloured" glasses.

It has all the trimmings, international alliance, good perks for the more elite frequent flyers, extensive lounge network with good offerings*, good return for frequent short domestic flights etc. Hard to match, as Virgin well know.

* Trying to think of better lounges that are purely domestic elsewhere in the world - Air NZ floats to the top, but QF not that far behind (and neither are the DJ lounges though).

 

[medhead]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

You paid $75 for Tiger flight for SYD-ADL?! That's expensive

Includes check in, baggage and "convenience" fee

The point you make about there being no value in fare savings over missing lounge access is well taken, medhead.
For a Velocity nothing red such as myself, lounge access costs $30 per visit, so that average $8.30 airfare saving with DJ you mention becomes $21.70 more expensive than QF once you factor the pay for access to the DJ lounge into the costings.

Jenifur Charne

I should admit that I have a special situation. I fly the same days and flights week to week. So it is easy for me to lock in fares in advance. But then I have had to make 4 changes this year. The other thing is that I have/had paid qantas club membership, costing about $150 to $200 per year. Trouble is when I kicked over to gold my lounge membership become free, I also have a few flights that aren't syd-adl, so it was too hard for me to simply factor in the lounge costs. Given the switch to gold and that my other flights got me a big chunk of status, I think the cost of the paid lounge access roughly cancels out.

I guess what I'm really trying to say in a long winded way is that mine is only one example that works for me.

I rarely fly domestic, my comments have been directed towards international flights.

But as you have brought up domestic I thought I would have a look at a few dates and the comparisons between DJ and QANTAS.

It appears to me that QANTAS is more expensive domestically as well.

I checked SYD - ADL return, one of the dates was out 18 AUG, back 24 AUG.

The red e-deal flights which were the cheapest fares on QANTAS ranged from $133 through $279 one way.

The cheapest fare on DJ was $89. I think you have to pay baggage there as well.

I'm sure that plenty of people get great value from QANTAS, there certainly are a lot of loyal followers on this forum.

I'm just trying to work out why?? Is there something I am missing here.

I have not flown QANTAS for over 25 years and cannot comment on their operation.

Are you treated incredibly well on QANTAS or is the food fantastic, or is there another reason why QANTAS has all of these loyal followers.

The responses I have read from the loyal followers all appear to be trying to justify high prices or talk about the odd competitive fair.

Nobody seems to be supporting QANTAS on the basis of:

Customer service

Food quality

Happy friendly staff

How great the FF program is

etc etc

Why??

I think the relevance of price is that is the only difference. Customer service domestic is pretty much the same between Qantas and Virgin. I find it to be fair to very good. Food quality I don't really eat the food, but pringles and a coke (which is all I've had on DJ) is as good as anything I have on Qantas, and the coke is "free" on qantas. So it comes down to the Fares.

I don't think your comparison is a very good comparison. I've paid $99 for all my August flights with Qantas, that includes check luggage, it includes a beer or 2, due to status in also includes Qantas club access with again free beers. I travel carry on luggage only so saving $10 on the fare flying with DJ is not worth having to pay for those beers, and internet while waiting for my flight. If we look over a longer time frame, as I did, then the fares are very similar.

If you wish to do a comparison try looking at 27 and 30 September or 5/7 october. I'm fairly certain that the cheapest fares on those days are something like DJ $198 and QF $175.

Basically, I don't see myself justifying high fares, I'm presenting the fact that the fares aren't higher on QF. It just doesn't stand up to claim that the price of Qantas is high. The other value of qantas as I outlined is that it is easier to attain status on Qantas with my flying.

 

[JohnK]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

It appears to me that QANTAS is more expensive domestically as well.

Try travelling at peak times like Friday and Sunday and then see what sort of airfares you get.

Just to give an example of available flights BNE-SYD on 24 December 2010. Yes Christmas Eve and it is as good a day as any to compare.

DJ have 4 early flights at $109, then 13 flights at $130 and the last flight of the night at $109. Actually the last flight looks good but I want to leave mid-afternoon/early evening and I will more than likely have more than 23kg of luggage to take home.

Qantas have 7 early flights at $101, then 3 flights at $139, a flight at $158, 3 flights at $139, 3 flights at $158, a flight at $230, 3 flights at $158 and 3 more flights at $139.

So overall DJ have 14 flights and QF have 24 flights and most of them are cheaper.

I checked SYD - ADL return, one of the dates was out 18 AUG, back 24 AUG.

Out on a Wednesday and back on a Tuesday. How convenient to take advantage of DJ's Tuesday and Wednesday specials. Who commutes mid-week anyway?

I'm sure that plenty of people get great value from QANTAS, there certainly are a lot of loyal followers on this forum.

I'm just trying to work out why?? Is there something I am missing here.

I have not flown QANTAS for over 25 years and cannot comment on their operation.

Are you treated incredibly well on QANTAS or is the food fantastic, or is there another reason why QANTAS has all of these loyal followers.

The responses I have read from the loyal followers all appear to be trying to justify high prices or talk about the odd competitive fair.

You sure are missing something. I am not stupid and I am sure I can say the same for the majority of the Qantas "followers". I have been commuting for over 2 years and believe me I have done my homework. The number of times DJ is cheaper than QF is very rare. And please forget Happy Hour and mid-week airfares. These gimmicks are for a very limited market.

Very simple! On Qantas I get much better schedules, a generous baggage allowance, some sort of food and drinks. On DJ I get nothing unless I pay extra for it.

I don't know about others but for me I need to look at the DJ airfare, add $10 for baggage and if it at least $15-$20 cheaper than the best QF airfare then I will book DJ.