BBQ at Changi......

[defurax]

:shock: Glad they all got off the plane safely... question is how you get back into the air after experiencing something like that.

I think they have to change the engine first!

 

[Happy Trails]

Not so sure I would be feeling very calm when looking out the window with that amount of fire.

Personally I would have preferred to have vacated as soon as practical via the Emergency Exits rather than awaiting stairs, assuming that it would have been safe to have done so.

Reckon I'd have had an involuntary evacuation.

 

[moa999]

I think they have to change the engine first!

And the wing.
I suspect the damage is more severe than VH-OQA

Will be interesting to read the detailed reports

 

[jb747]

Reckon I'd have had an involuntary evacuation.

Well, they said they could smell fuel, but I did think it might be that....

 

[Captain Halliday]

JB, from an earlier response you indicated surprise that PAX were not evacuated via slides, presumably on the left.

But assuming you had made the call not to evacuate... would you move PAX forward and aft of the wing, and on a twin aisle, to the left side of the cabin? (noting you don't have anything near the full facts, so it's a bit hypothetical.)

Or would there still be too much activity on the flight deck and the CSM & cabin crew still be making calls in the back at that stage?

Either way, the vision taken by pax not far aft of the wing on the right side really surprised me.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Sadly neither FR24 nor Flightaware show the full track of the aircraft. The turn around is missing. But, from the fact that it's shown at FL170 for most of the return, you can reasonably assume that the engine has been shut down. As that U-turn took place over the Andaman Sea, the nearest good airport is Bangkok. I can understand not diverting to emergency airports, but flying past BKK is an interesting decision.

BKK is in a different direction, although on the way back to SIN, there is also HKT, PEN, and KUL nearby before they get to SIN. I'm guessing all of them would be suitable alternates with the shortest runway being 3km long, and all of them handle international traffic and mid/large aircraft regularly. Guess the pilots just wanted to go home. I was on that aircraft some months ago, but it looks like I won't be on that specific frame again for a little while.

 

[jb747]

JB, from an earlier response you indicated surprise that PAX were not evacuated via slides, presumably on the left.

But assuming you had made the call not to evacuate... would you move PAX forward and aft of the wing, and on a twin aisle, to the left side of the cabin? (noting you don't have anything near the full facts, so it's a bit hypothetical.)

Or would there still be too much activity on the flight deck and the CSM & cabin crew still be making calls in the back at that stage?

Either way, the vision taken by pax not far aft of the wing on the right side really surprised me.

Evacuation is a black and white decision. You don't partially do it. I would have gone, but then I wasn't there either. We don't know how much they knew, how soon, or what they expected on landing. It may be that the fire was totally out of left field.

 

[RooFlyer]

My thoughts too, with one wing on fire why didn't they use the emergency chutes ?

I also find it surprising that the media reports all state that passengers alighted via stairs, rather than slides.

<snip>

You're not the only one....
<snip>

Uninformed speculation (NOT referring to any of the above!) is grist for the AFF mill .. .. so here's mine: Perhaps the emergency slides were not deployed immediately due to the uncertainty in the coughpit as to whether the fire was spreading under the aircraft via burning liquids. Although I'm not sure how they weighed up the risk of that vs the fire spreading into the body of the aircraft. And perhaps like QF32 once the immediate danger had passed, it was safer to deplane with stairs rather than the slides.

 

[jb747]

BKK is in a different direction, although on the way back to SIN, there is also HKT, PEN, and KUL nearby before they get to SIN. I'm guessing all of them would be suitable alternates with the shortest runway being 3km long, and all of them handle international traffic and mid/large aircraft regularly. Guess the pilots just wanted to go home. I was on that aircraft some months ago, but it looks like I won't be on that specific frame again for a little while.

From the point at which I think they turned (that part of the track isn't on FR24), BKK is the closest major field. Direction is immaterial. Options in a quad a very different to a twin. Commercially going to SIN is the best decision, but from an airmanship point of view possibly not....

 

[codash1099]

Singapore Airlines plane catches fire after touching down at Changi Airport - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Melburnian1]

...What's actually burning? Fuel, oil, hydraulics? Or a combination? Was the engine shut down? And if so, what was the ignition source? What was the reported leak (I've read both oil and fuel)?

The BBC report accompanying the video claims a tech crew member said it was 'oil'.

Provided the audio in that report catches most sound, it is surprising that there appears to be an absence of panic. Perhaps everyone on board were docile Singaporeans rather than excitable, boisterous Italians.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Some answers which will hopefully come out either soon or in the investigation:

• why didn't the pilots evacuate via slides?
• why didn't cabin crew initiate an exit on their own accord?
• did the culture at the airline prevent cabin crew initiating an exit on their own accord?
• did a passenger attempt to initiate evacuation?
• to what extent did pilots consider other scenarios in making their decision? For example, were they mindful of QF32? Or of the OZ incident where an ejected passenger was subsequently killed by emergency vehicles?

 

[dajop]

Some answers which will hopefully come out either soon or in the investigation:

• why didn't the pilots evacuate via slides?
• why didn't cabin crew initiate an exit on their own accord?
• did the culture at the airline prevent cabin crew initiating an exit on their own accord?
• did a passenger attempt to initiate evacuation?
• to what extent did pilots consider other scenarios in making their decision? For example, were they mindful of QF32? Or of the OZ incident where an ejected passenger was subsequently killed by emergency vehicles?

In Singapore I'm afraid it is not necessarily likely answers to these questions will come out! Or maybe they will and I'm just become too cynical about the control of information here ...

 

[Melburnian1]

Your third question is a most interesting one. In the Cebu Pacific incident to which I attached a link, I bet that the answer had a fair chance of being 'yes.'

The OZ214 'wall' incident at SFO (coming up for three years ago on 6 July) resulted in some observations about that airline's culture in respect of interactions between technical crew members.

Will the Singaporeans ask for technical or other assistance from (the not always right according to Ben Sandilands) ATSB or would they consider themselves to be more knowledgeable in the city state?

 

[Conrad_S]

I'll be packing marshmallows in my carry-on next time I'm on SQ.

 

[Quickstatus]

Adding to the speculation:

Takeoff profile appears normal
Reached FL300 21 minutes after takeoff

Passenger smelt "Petrol"
Pilot mentioned "oil" issue, and not enough fuel to continue to destination
At diversion point north of Langkawi Island (lat 7.19/long 99.34) FL170. Maintained FL170 until SIN approach.

Dawn breaking upon landing at SIN at 0648.
Passengers disembarked via left door 1 via stairs after daybreak. After landing, how long did they spend on board before disembarking?

Fire only started upon or soon after landing back in Changi.
Fire engulfed right wing. Flames emitting from behind slats, flaps and ailerons
Unsure of ignition source
Unsure of fuel - avgas, hydraulic, engine oil. A leak occured which spread across the internal surfaces of the wing. Avgas?
Fire started after landing when flow of air slowed/stopped across wing allowed fuel (avgas,oil) to linger on wing surfaces and ignite.

Diversion back to SIN - Maybe initially just a fuel leak?. Nearest diversion airports - HKT , BKK, KUL. Events escalated after landing.

Fuel leak? - transfer pump between right wing main tank and right engine? I think usually Centre tank fuel used first then main wing tanks


Stay on board or evacuate?. Every situation different. Did QF32/RdC introduce a "grey" to a black and white decision?.
Evacuate - some injuries maybe serious. Orderly disembark - no injuries or catastrophic



Footnote:

KAL B773 uncontained engine failure causing fuel line rupture and fire at HND while taxiing. PW4000 - low pressure turbine failure

BA B772 uncontained engine failure in the high pressure turbine section - GE90 engine. FAA had concerns about this engine. But BA says it had different version. Recently returned to sevice March 2016

 

[Boris spatsky]

Adding to the speculation:
Stay on board or evacuate?. Every situation different. Did QF32/RdC introduce a "grey" to a black and white decision?.

That's wild speculation. It was not a black and white decision - many variables, considerations. We don't know all the facts.

 

[R36snowbound]

I fly SYD to SIN on Saturday (SQ242). I am not nervous however from a selfish perspective, would prefer to know what caused this incident before Saturday.

 

[RooFlyer]

Aviation Herald reports an engine oil leak in flight, causing the return to SIN. Fire started well after landing and dealt with promptly.

 

[Quickstatus]

I fly SYD to SIN on Saturday (SQ242). I am not nervous however from a selfish perspective, would prefer to know what caused this incident before Saturday.

There is an SQ242 currently at cruise altitude just south of Darwin. Seems to be going ok