B738 'pickle fork' crack sees aircraft withdrawn

[Melburnian1]

QF has 75 B738s but 34 must be 'new generation.'

Interesting report about a crack found in one of the latter:

Qantas launches inspection blitz after cracks found on Boeing 737 jet

Qantas will inspect 33 of its Boeing 737 aircraft by the end of this week after it discovered structural cracks on one of the short-haul jets that are the backbone of its domestic operations.

www.theage.com.au

This ties in with other AFF discussion about QF's ageing mainstream (B738) domestic fleet. Some sharemarket analysts have touched on this, suggesting that QFd's ongoing deferral of replacements will create some financial pressure in future years. No transport operator can keep postponing replacements,as eventually maintenance costs for the retained, elderly equipment or rollingstock start to 'bite' (and there may be other issues such as difficulty in promptly sourcing spare parts.)

Not being in the aviation sector, I'd never heard of the strange term 'pickle fork' but here is a very (technical) explanation best suited to AFFers who have engineering qualifications:

What On Earth Is A Pickle Fork And Why Is It Adding To Boeing’s 737 Woes?

It’s fair to say that 2019 has not been a good year for the aircraft manufacturer Boeing, as its new 737 MAX aircraft has been revealed to contain a software fault that could cause the aircra…

hackaday.com

What is the registration number of the withdrawn aircraft?

 

[cove]

Saw that news flash on the tv tonight but more information will be needed.

 

[DC3]

I’m happy for them to pro-actively check and fix these sort of things before anything more serious happens.

 

[Melburnian1]

Allegedly, a second aircraft has been found to have a crack, leading to calls for the entire fleet of B738s to be withdrawn:

Qantas urged to ground all of its 737s after second aircraft crack discovered

Qantas' engineers union has called on the airline to ground its entire fleet of Boeing 737s after a structural crack was discovered on a second of its planes overnight.

www.smh.com.au

I bet the QF share price this morning takes a dive. Often in the past, these sorts of problems have been quietly solved, but as with the MAX fiasco, if a difficulty affects more than one aircraft that's when sparks tend to fly and passengers (rationally or not) become worried.

Given that QF has yet to inspect all its aircraft, will others be affected?

This must mean some flights (especially during weekday peak periods, and perhaps on Sunday afternoons, when fleet utilisation is at its highest) will have to be cancelled.

How will management react? Sackings in engineering due to this issue not having been detected in house, or is it regarded as so hard to detect that this was understandable?

QF trades on its reputation for safety - including in one movie - so these revelations are far from helpful.

AJ ought concentrate on this rather than lecturing Australians on social policy issues that have nothing to do with transport. He's been found wanting in a number of areas such as poor punctuality, many cancellations of flights and an ageing fleet, and now this developing safety concern.

 

[levelnine]

Gosh this is potentially big news if more cracks are found and they require serious maintenance.

 

[Melburnian1]

At this early stage, the media hasn't stated how long

Gosh this is potentially big news if more cracks are found and they require serious maintenance.

The QF public relations department will be in overdrive.

Its refusal in 'The Age'/'SMH' story to confirm that cracks have been found in a second aircraft is a really bad way to operate one's corporate communications.

Justified or not, it will make passengers and potential bookers believe that the QF management is hiding something.

Many will also be concerned that the Boeing narrowbody on which they are flying may not have been inspected (even though "tomorrow" has been given as the completion date) and so may have a crack.

Isn't the golden rule that one's highly paid PR staff ought state publicly that 'yes, there was a crack in a second aircraft but so far we've inspected XX others that have not been found to have any such problem with the remaining XX aircraft to be inspected by (date.")?

At this early stage, no one has publicly stated how long it will take for the initial (one or, now, two) aircraft to be repaired.

 

[samh004]

AJ ought concentrate on this rather than lecturing Australians on social policy issues that have nothing to do with transport.

Sounds very much like you’re conflating your own views with a serious issue. The two items have nothing to do with each other. Much like sponsoring a sport wouldn’t materially affect how the airline operates on a daily basis.

Actually on topic though, I guess I’m watching this space closely, but I’m not concerned with their extracurricular activities as they have nothing to do with this, yet another Boeing issue.

 

[DC3]

May be more will come out during today.

 

[DC3]

… AJ ought concentrate on this rather than lecturing Australians on social policy issues that have nothing to do with transport.

AJ will have others checking for any cracking while he does CEO-type things, I think.

 

[moa999]

While it's a little concerning, these sort of events in aircraft are not uncommon.

At the moment Qantas seems to be being proactive in its inspections - the immediate order from Boeing was to inspect aircraft with 30000+ cycles, if which Qantas has none - so it's starting with older aircraft.

But given the rate of issues being found overseas (1 in 20) it's not a surprise Qantas will also have a few aircraft with issues

Cracks found on 38 of 810 Boeing 737 NG jets inspected globally

Boeing Co <BA.N> said on Thursday that airlines had inspected 810 of the company's 737 NG jets around the world and found 38 structural cracks requiring repair and replacement of the affected parts.

www.reuters.com

Once again Purvinas doing a great job of trying to scare and disrupt the travelling public.

Why not... Our members recognise this might be scary to the travelling public and our engineers will be working as quickly as they can to inspect the remaining aircraft

This article has some technical descriptions of the issue

Boeing’s 737 in another pickle, Part 2 - Leeham News and Analysis

By Bjorn Fehrm October 8, 2019, ©. Leeham News: The FAA Air Worthiness Directive (AD) for high time Boeing 737 NGs regarding cracked rear pickle forks was issued Thursday last week. Boeing had a call with 737 NG operators... Read More

leehamnews.com

 

[Melburnian1]

AJ will have others checking for any cracking while he does CEO-type things, I think.

'CEO-type things' for QF include as number one a focus on safety.

Given that an issue has been publicly identified that goes to the very core of QFd's operation, its highly profitable 'golden triangle' flights that largely use B738s, it's remiss of AJ not to be holding an immediate news conference (assuming he's in Oz) to discuss this safety issue.

And no, I'm not 'conflating' as another suggested, because every minute AJ spends on preaching to us on extra-curricular social issues is a minute he doesn't spend on fixing his broken airline that strangely many Australians seem to regard as iconic.

As some senior Ministers in the Federal Coalition Government have correctly observed, some in business (and as a side issue a huge number of "journalists" in the media) spend far too much time making observations on social issues rather than (in business' case) sticking to the knitting of paying their employees correctly and lawfully, maximising shareholder returns, investing where rates of return warrant it, exporting where this is practical, researching to increase productivity and paying (and not evading) taxes.

AJ really needs to focus on the basics of running an airline. Safety is #1.

 

[DC3]

I found post # 1 to be very informative. However, the direction is now going OT.

 

[Melburnian1]

I found post # 1 to be very informative. However, the direction is now going OT.

Point taken.

With a quick Internet search of 'Qantas crack' revealing many media outlets featuring this story, expect further developments.

20 minutes ago, Qantas' share price was 'off' 11 cents (1.67 per cent) to A$6.47. The market will be digesting this news. If it's only (as moa999 implies) three or four aircraft out of the 34 (or 75 in the complete B738 fleet), probably well and good as far as investors are concerned (though not ideal.)

If more, then greater adverse ramifications for loss of revenue, and costs to fix the identified problems.

As AJ has stated, leisure travel on Australian domestic routes is already soft, as consumers seem to be using those c.$1000 tax refund stimuli to pay off debt rather than use for discretionary spending like a holiday.

Many leisure travellers are relatively 'uninformed' in the sense of travelling only occasionally by air, so any features about 'safety' that make headlines might easily scare individuals away from making that booking. It depends on how long any adverse publicity continues, and as always the prominence it receives.

It's interesting that VA examined 19 aircraft and did not find any such cracks. Luck, or a younger median age (and consequently fewer 'cycles') than the QF aircraft?

 

[Mattg]

I found post # 1 to be very informative. However, the direction is now going OT.

I agree. I really think this discussion should be kept to the issue at hand, which is the inspection of Qantas' Boeing 737-800 fleet.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens to the fleet but I suspect the union may be over-exaggerating a little here. Time will tell, but I trust Qantas to deal with things like this sensibly and appropriately.

 

[moa999]

It's interesting that VA examined 19 aircraft and did not find any such cracks. Luck, or a younger median age (and consequently fewer 'cycles') than the QF aircraft?

Presumably that's their VO/VU series plus the 2 737 VBs which were 2003-06 deliveries. Qantas has a decent number of slightly older 2002-03 deliveries. Both took a lot of deliveries after Ansetts collapse, although VA has removed some older ones, unlike QF.

If VA is 0/19 and QF seemingly 2/30-odd, I'd think that's just luck of the random crack of 5% odds.

 

[RooFlyer]

'Completely irresponsible': Qantas lashes calls to ground 75 jets after claims second crack discovered

An aviation engineering union calls on Qantas to ground its entire Boeing 737 fleet, and claims engineers discovered a crack in a second jet last night.

www.abc.net.au

Australia's aviation engineering union has called on Qantas to ground its entire Boeing 737 fleet after a crack was discovered on a second aircraft overnight.

The airline yesterday said it would immediately inspect 33 Boeing 737 planes after a crack was found on one of them during a scheduled maintenance check.

The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) said both cracks were on a part of the plane called the "pickle fork", which holds up the wings.

 

[harvyk]

My thoughts, cracks happen in aircraft all the time, it is why they undergo periodic inspections and are repaired when found. If having an un-diagnosed crack for even just one flight was such a major issue each and every aircraft would undergo the equivalent of a D check before each and every flight.

As it stands now, an issue has been found and QF are taking the appropriate steps, despite the fact that they don't need to if they where following boeing's directive to the written letter. Of course, many airlines own B737's which are the same age or even older than the QF 737's which are still under the number of cycles which boeing has said is the problem number which will not be checked (because checks are not free, and many airlines are under serious financial pressure and don't mind if safety slips to save costs)

Once again Purvinas doing a great job of trying to scare and disrupt the travelling public.

Agreed 100%.

The media isn't interested in balanced reporting, they are interested in selling ad-space and clicks. So a sensationalist article is the perfect click bait.
Finally, I'm going to leave this right here -> The Lazy Journalists Plane Story Generator

 

[esseeeayeenn]

As it stands now, an issue has been found and QF are taking the appropriate steps, despite the fact that they don't need to if they where following boeing's directive to the written letter.

I don't think anyone can have confidence in Boeing's directives on safety anymore.
They have shown that they are willing to mislead or even deceive pilots and the public in pursuit of profit.
So I would expect airlines to adopt a more conservative approach than Boeing from now on.

 

[Melburnian1]

... Of course, many airlines own B737's which are the same age or even older than the QF 737's which are still under the number of cycles which boeing has said is the problem number which will not be checked (because checks are not free, and many airlines are under serious financial pressure and don't mind if safety slips to save costs)...

Since it's been confirmed that at least one QF aircraft with under the Boeing-recommended check threshold of 35,000 'cycles' - in QF's case, just 27,000 - has such cracks, this is news.

Yes, media is interested in clickbait but one assumes Boeing (or regulators) don't want to withdraw aircraft for inspections just for fun, so while some media may exaggerate, it's a valid article to write.

 

[Berlin]

Do we know how long actual repairs of this issue take once a crack is found? Looks to me like a pretty essential part of the aircraft but I'm not at all an engineer so I bet others on here will know this better. I'm mostly concerned whether the flying public should expect any cancellations or delays as a result of this or whether this a 'can be fixed overnight' kind of thing.