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Australian women on Qatar flight internally examined

TheRealTMA

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Am I the only cynic who thinks they're just looking for a scapegoat in order to make this go away?

IMHO, they think they've done nothing wrong, treated women worse than animals and are only taking action to be seen to be doing something in order to not lose money. This just stinks of disaster management rather than contrition.
I think this was really just a brain fade by one or two senior officials. A bit like the infamous Chappell underarm bowling incident. While the rights of women in the ME (and quite a few other countries) are very bad, to tar the whole of Qatar airlines and other MEAs with perceived ME or religious bias is somewhat rash IMHO.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Reports are that officials have been referred for criminal prosecution, as it should be.

Repairing the damage to Qatar airlines and Qatar is not going to be cheap, but hey money’s not a problem.

I wonder if the fact that Qatar is one of the main hubs for coalition forces for actions in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc has any bearing on the somewhat muted political responses?
 

Daver6

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This just stinks of disaster management rather than contrition.

What would be appropriate contrition ?

Personal apologies to the women who were sexually assaulted. Publicly calling it out as sexual assault as they is exactly what it was. Financial compensation.

Most of all contrition is about ensuring it doesn't happen again and changing your ways. Learning from your mistakes. Ideally, giving women rights, but that is not going to happen.
 

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Dear DC3
"said-Although, I made no mention of media. Are you reading something into my post"

No, but basically if it had happened to me I wouldn't have stood (or rather lay down for it!) dam* the consequences, and my partner is a retired journalist! I am a retired Fed public servant and I know how useless the Oz gov are. I would have done something as soon as I was back here, and what anyone else, neighbours, checkout girls at Coles, thought, I wouldn't care.

Different people have different reactions and there were enough women (and it now appears nationalities , OZ, UK, French, and how many more on the 10 planes affected) involved to cover a myriad of ages and attitudes, from embarassment to rebellion.

Its the young girls I feel really really sorry for.

Women in the middle east, even princesses, are fundamentally just the property of the men in the family. Father, brother, husband. Surprised if any of the women who were travelling with father/husband that their permission wasn't first sought to do this to wives, no wonder ....... finally the Qatari Government are a bit upset with airport authorities.
 

MEL_Traveller

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Although, I made no mention of media. Are you reading something into my post?

Dee was asking 'how this was kept quiet', ie from the public. As you say, the government would have been making enquiries, but they don't have to go to the media.
 

MEL_Traveller

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Personal apologies to the women who were sexually assaulted. Publicly calling it out as sexual assault as they is exactly what it was. Financial compensation.

Most of all contrition is about ensuring it doesn't happen again and changing your ways. Learning from your mistakes. Ideally, giving women rights, but that is not going to happen.

Aren't all those things the product of an investigation? Otherwise you're asking the Qatari government to find all parties guilty without due process...
 

serfty

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Maybe there was a deliberate effort to wait until Quaratine for the passengers had completed to spare them from media hanging around outside the quarantine facility/hotel.

Just random thought
 

Daver6

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Aren't all those things the product of an investigation? Otherwise you're asking the Qatari government to find all parties guilty without due process...

The issue I see is that the investigation is going to be about as free and fair as the Saudi one into the murder of Khashoggi. Both sanctioned by the head of state but the investigation it to find someone to take the fall. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Qatari Emir personally signed off on this sexual assault, but I also suspect he couldn't really care less until it blew up to be a PR nightmare for the state. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't have too much faith in any investigation in totalitarian states being free and a fair.
 
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The issue I see is that the investigation is going to be about as free and fair as the Saudi one into the murder of Khashoggi. Both sanctioned by the head of state but the investigation it to find someone to take the fall. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Qatari Emir personally signed off on this sexual assault, but I also suspect he couldn't really care less until it blew up to be a PR nightmare for the state. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't have too much faith in any investigation in totalitarian states being free and a fair.
At least it’s happening - I can think of any number of countries where nothing would be done at all. Hopefully this will set guidelines and procedures to stop this happening to foreign nationals again. Not sure about that - will wait and see what actually happens in the investigation.
 

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Our government knows the names and contact details of passengers arriving into Oz on any given flight/day. Nothing stops them from pro-actively, with discretion, asking about whether there were issues on departing from Qatar.

Hmmmm. And what's to say that that hasn't happened? People are looking for headlines. Put ourselves in the situation of the women involved. Do they want to be identified and held out as victims in this, right now?

__________

Yes, we'd all like to see those that perpetrated this crime held out to dry and punished, maybe with compensation to the victims at some point (not that that would fix anything). But given the real world, how international crimes are dealt with, and considering the location, I'd say what's happened so far is pretty much as good as we could have expected (see links re apologies offered and investigations commenced above).

The Australian government led the international protest - I still can't believe how muted the response from UK, France and NZ has been, the other countries with identified victims) - and has been effective in its diplomatic efforts to the extent that a ME authoritarian regime was ever going to concede anything.
 

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OK, those who reckon nothing was done by authorities, there was a delay, something was hushed up and all the usual conspiratorial anti-government BS, have a read of this ABC report.

 

Archphoto

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While assumptions are being made about a "cover-up" taking place, maybe we can have a look at the media's response since these disgusting sexual assaults took place on the women involved. Not a day has gone by without me hearing the words "Examination" in the headline in almost every radio news bulletin (my a••e it was an examination!!), and it's been played on the national news networks and appeared in the papers regularly.

I cannot even begin to comprehend how these women felt at the time of these assaults nor how they must be feeling since. Additionally, hearing it spouted every day since it became public knowledge would have to be gut-wrenching and soul-destroying even with their support network (if they do indeed have one).

Now imagine what it would have been like shut up for 14 days, with the entire country knowing what had happened and baying for blood, while the media parked itself outside your hotel wanting to capture that elusive photo of you (or one of the other women involved), or worse getting it utterly wrong and plastering the image of a woman who wasn't even on the flight. Hell, you might not have even told your partner or family - but now they all know thanks to the "public's right to know" and that "support" you're getting is pretty thin due to Covid-19 restrictions and quarantine, so you're feeling pretty bl***y low.

I, for one, have never flown Qatar before and certainly won't be doing so now. The risk, IMHO, is too great for all women, and I don't feel confident anything will come of the Qatari investigation, other than some pathetic lip-service to keep us all appeased that they're doing the "right thing." Nothing will ever make this "right", (although hitting the Qatari government in the hip pocket through flight sanctions and monetary payouts would certainly be warranted). I can only hope that the women involved are receiving the support and counselling they need and will get through this horrific travel experience with the support of those they hold dear. 😢
 

DC3

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... Hopefully this will set guidelines and procedures to stop this happening to foreign nationals again ...
While hoping that this is how it plays out, I would place the expectations bar very low indeed.
 
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The intial interview, that led to every subsequent article, included the lady saying she wanted to launch a class action to sue but would only do so if all the other women joined her.

I suspect that, unless it does go to court, the full story will never be known.

Does this explain why it entered the public domain, as they had been out of quarantine for around a week before the interview & as previously discussed - not been held incommunicado?
__________________________

Given the growing outrage about this incident & the seemingly lack of knowledge by the majority of the poor, near slave-like treatment of females in the Middle East - I wonder if any people have been sending outraged emails to Alan Joyce demanding that Qantas sever all ties with Emirates?

After all, when ranking countries by worst attitude/treatment of females, Dubai rates worse than Qatar, followed by Saudi Arabia & India. South Korea & Sri Lanka come in 8th & 9th respectively.


That would be the consistent response surely?
 

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Given the growing outrage about this incident & the seemingly lack of knowledge by the majority of the poor, near slave-like treatment of females in the Middle East - I wonder if any people have been sending outraged emails to Alan Joyce demanding that Qantas sever all ties with Emirates?

Given the UAE's then existing attitude to, and laws relating to gays, and Joyce's happily signing his airline up to a strong alliance with Emirates, changing its stopover hub from Singapore to Dubai, I suspect that it would fall on deaf ears.
 

DC3

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I find it difficult to believe that any low-level manager at a major airport would authorise such action, particularly in Qatar. Authorisation may well have come from someone much higher up the food chain.

I’m skeptical that the truth will be revealed in the short-term.
 
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Tiki

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I can easily see why this was not made public immediately. If I had been one of those women, already exhausted, stressed from trying to get a flight home, being price gouged or forced to buy business class cancelled flights. The last thing in the world I would want is anything to stop me from completing that journey or invading my privacy once at home. Actually if I was pulled off a plane due to a crime investigation I would be freaking out that maybe someone put drugs in my bag or something. I would want to prove my innocence and get back on the plane asap. So if I learned that all I had to do is allow a female doctor to inspect my uterus (or lack there of, I had a hysterectomy) and I would be free to go, I would have complied just to get it over and done with. And the last thing I would want is journalists hovering around my house, the check out lady looking at me with pity (you poor dear) or my social media blowing up. I would have stayed quiet and got drunk on the plane and tried to just put it out of my mind. I have been through worse in my life, this wouldn't have been a bleep on my radar as long as I got home safely.
 

BAM1748

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While we all hope for a proper investigation and lessons learnt, unless there are consequences for Qatar's image nothing will change. While the airline management was not at fault that's really the only route where consequences can be felt. eg a month ban on flying here.
 
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I don't think there has been any proposal to name the women. Some have come forward to be interviewed, most have not so far.

I can easily see why this was not made public immediately. If I had been one of those women, already exhausted, stressed from trying to get a flight home, being price gouged or forced to buy business class cancelled flights. The last thing in the world I would want is anything to stop me from completing that journey or invading my privacy once at home. Actually if I was pulled off a plane due to a crime investigation I would be freaking out that maybe someone put drugs in my bag or something. I would want to prove my innocence and get back on the plane asap. So if I learned that all I had to do is allow a female doctor to inspect my uterus (or lack there of, I had a hysterectomy) and I would be free to go, I would have complied just to get it over and done with. And the last thing I would want is journalists hovering around my house, the check out lady looking at me with pity (you poor dear) or my social media blowing up. I would have stayed quiet and got drunk on the plane and tried to just put it out of my mind. I have been through worse in my life, this wouldn't have been a bleep on my radar as long as I got home safely.
 
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