Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

Lynda2475

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It's @Lynda2475 who disagrees with this.

No I dont disagree with support for our pacific neighbours, I disagree with one aspect (bringing covid cases onshore for treatment) of the support currently being offered when same is not offered to Aussies who are currently out of country.
 

Pushka

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Instead of banning the flights and leaving more vulnerable Australians stranded, why not just do an attitude switch and assume that everyone on the flights coming from India are likely to be infectious and take extra precaution? If front line workers are vaccinated and hospitals are not overwhelmed and cases are not leaking from the quarantine system what is the issue of allowing them entry? Unless of course they are not citizens?
Because SA doesn’t have the facilities to house them all if positive? And I’m also not sure whether many/most are citizens. This will impact on others trying to come into Australia. I can see SA asking for a pause if this keeps up.
 

Lynda2475

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The loophole where we are letting non-citizens and non-residents (i.e. extended family members who do not contribute to the economy by working or paying taxes) in really ought to have been closed long ago.

Flights and HQ places should prioritize citizens, then permanent residents. It infuriates me that some people have been able to pay for non-resident relatives to come stay, when many Aussies are being denied ability to leave to visit their relatives which live overseas and other Aussies cant get a flight or HQ spot to come home.
 

justinbrett

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The loophole where we are letting non-citizens and non-residents (i.e. extended family members who do not contribute to the economy by working or paying taxes) in really ought to have been closed long ago.

Flights and HQ places should prioritize citizens, then permanent residents. It infuriates me that some people have been able to pay for non-resident relatives to come stay, when many Aussies are being denied ability to leave to visit their relatives which live overseas and other Aussies cant get a flight or HQ spot to come home.

Australia restricts the flights, the airlines restrict the passengers. Technically the government isn't stopping any citizen from coming home, they're just restricting the flights.

In New Zealand the government runs the MIQ program where you have to book a spot, and then prove that to the airline.

In both cases the permission to enter the country is quite liberal, but getting a spot on a flight (Aus) or in MIQ (NZ) is the tricky bit.

I dare say it's a legal thing to have a tangible manifestation of capacity limits - it's a grey area for the governments to prevent their own citizens returning.
 

Lynda2475

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I think we should be giving heaps more vaccine to PNG, we really don't need it so much here

Feds asked US to donate their soon to expire AZ stockpile which USA have no intention of using (as they haven't authorized emergency use for AZ and have paused their J&J roll-out due to same blood clot concerns), will be interesting to see whether they choose to let this go to waste or donate.

And whether EU keeps blocking delivery of the EU manufactured AZ doses we paid for and asked to divert to PNG.

However I do not agree that we should be slowing our pitifully slow roll-out further by giving away material quantities of current vaccine supply (certainly no Pfizer) to poorer neighbours. We cant afford to keep having sporadic state border closures, and the only solution some Premiers will accept to staying open is full vaccination of certain groups (certainly 1A and 1B).

Also should this winter bring another Victorian style disaster, there will be hell to pay if locals were denied vaccination and got ill, because our doses were donated at expense of the peoples health whose taxes actually paid for those vaccines.
 

SydneySwan

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Instead of banning the flights and leaving more vulnerable Australians stranded, why not just do an attitude switch and assume that everyone on the flights coming from India are likely to be infectious and take extra precaution?
I understand that unofficially this is already done as part of the risk management process. If not quite assuming that everyone travelling from India has Covid, at least assuming the chances they have Covid is much higher than other departure points and processing / handling accordingly.
 

Lynda2475

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In both cases the permission to enter the country is quite liberal, but getting a spot on a flight (Aus) or in MIQ (NZ) is the tricky bit.

But if the permission to enter Australia was less liberal (i.e. denied to non citizens and non permanent residents) then the competition for seats on the flights (and the related HQ places) would be less, enabling more Aussies to return.
 

Princess Fiona

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No I dont disagree with support for our pacific neighbours, I disagree with one aspect (bringing covid cases onshore for treatment) of the support currently being offered when same is not offered to Aussies who are currently out of country.
We have always allowed compassionate access to healthcare in Australia to those in PNG etc and that has continued throughout the pandemic all be it at much reduced rates.
I completely disagree that serious neighboring offshore Covid cases should be denied the same compassionate access to ICU etc that they would be if they were ill from other diseases.
It’s unconscionable to deny people access to health care based on diagnosis of a particular virus.

Didn’t work well in the 80’s in certain countries when another virus was around.
 

Lynda2475

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It’s unconscionable to deny people access to health care based on diagnosis of a particular virus.

So why is unconscionable to deny PNG but not to deny Australians? You ignored the last part of my sentence which was "when same is not offered to Aussies who are currently out of country".

There are Aussies offshore who want to come home for treatment for various illnesses that are still waiting to get home.
 

Princess Fiona

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So why is unconscionable to deny PNG but not to deny Australians? You ignored the last part of my sentence which was "when same is not offered to Aussies who are currently out of country".

There are Aussies offshore who want to come home for treatment for various illnesses that are still waiting to get home.
You are wrong, the same is offered to Australians. We are still repatriating critically ill sick Australians from everywhere.
 

lovetravellingoz

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So just you again ignore completely that he was not infectious, or that he had lived (starting as a child), worked and contributed much in Australia as well as to PNG.

The person you denigrate was being treated for problems caused from having had Covid, and not for Covid itself. The risk you complain about was not there as he was not contagious.

The health care system in Papua New Guinea has been declining due to the pandemic, and many patients have been transferred to Queensland, of which he was just one. This is entirely the right thing to have done, and to keep doing.
 
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Lynda2475

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We are still repatriating critically ill sick Australians from everywhere.
But what about those with non critical conditions that are expensive to treat overseas? They have to have a negative PCR test to return home if they can find a flight.

So just you again ignore completely that he was not infectious, or that he had worked lived and contributed much in Australia as well as to PNG

the person you denigrate

I have not denigrated anyone from PNG or even said anything personal about that individual you are referring to other than his death was not counted in Queensland numbers.

It was stated by others on this thread that other PNG covid cases have been brought to Australia for treatment. My objection is to knowingly importing covid cases over providing assistance to treat offshore given Australians overseas with positive PCRs are denied boarding flights home (they may also not be infectious, but have to wait til a negative PCR can be shown unless they play tennis). So it is a double standard I do not support.

If we can accept the risk of importing PNG covid patients, we can accept the risk of increasing the arrivals caps for returning Aussies, especially for those form places with good vaccination rates and/or declining infection rates.

There are still Australian overseas requiring medical treatment (maybe not critical enough for emergency assistance) that are still trying to get home. We owe these people more help.

Wow......

I guess everyone is entitled to their own ‘heart’

You chose the ignore the word "material" in my post. I've already stated I'm ok with sending some AZ doses, PPE, medical staff, advice etc. But I am not ok with giving away Pfizer since we don't currently have enough for those in 1A and 1B who need it , and not with giving away so much AZ that the over 50s in 1A and 1B cant be vaccinated now. And not bringing in Covid positive patients.

If you think me wanting our government to ensure that adequate vaccines are kept and made available to Australians (whose taxes have/will paid/pay for them) in a timely manner to protect those Australians working directly with overseas arrivals and to reduce the likelihood of future snap state border closures and the emotional and economic damage that causes makes me heartless than so be it. I don't think holding our government to their commitment to look after the well being of Australia lacks compassion. Just like you put on your own oxygen masks before assisting others in a flight emergency, you need to do the same with Covid vaccines for 1A and 1B (if not 2A as well).

Australia is helping directly (via PPE, doses, people) and indirectly by requesting our overseas AZ allocation and US unused ones be redirected to PNG. But it is unfair and unrealistic to ask Australians to sacrifice further and delay vaccinating more of our vulnerable population because PNG is struggling now. Our fortunes could change this coming flu season, Victoria proved that last year.

If we aim to help every neighbour who has rising Covid cases before vaccinating our own we are setting ourselves up for one huge fall should the virus come back into the community here.
 
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NM

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Lynda2475

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Aus Govt/Airline administered Rapid saliva tests at the airport gate before boarding are needed as well. Even if not falsified PCR tests are done up to 3 days in advance of departure and wont pick up if potential passenger has caught Covid since the test whilst in transit to the airport. Saliva tests still wont get all cases but should pick up more and lessen the ability to bribe a local for a clean test result.
 

lovetravellingoz

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It was stated by others on this thread that other PNG covid cases have also been brought to Australia for treatment. My objection is to knowingly importing covid cases over providing assistance to treat offshore given Australians overseas with positive PCRs are denied boarding flights home (they may also not be infectious, but have to wait til a negative PCR can be shown unless they play tennis). So it is a double standard I do not support.


Given your original objection below, Can you point out where it was stated that a person from PNG who could infect anyone with Covid 19 was brought to Australia for treatment? ie If they are not contagious, then they are not a known risk.


But i dont agree with bringing positive cases to Australia (unless they are Australian citizens we sent to help) because that is knowingly importing unecessary risk and unfair to aussies all over the wotld who have een unable to return home due to a positive covid test or inability to get a test.

From what I can discern Qld Health have knowingly brought in people for treatment from PNG, but I cannot find a report of any patient they brought in who was infectious and a known risk CV19 risk .

Apart from the non-infectious CV19 patient who died, the only media reports that I have been able to find are ones reflecting that patients are being brought to Australia from PNG for treatment as the PNG Health system is struggling.

The one person who has been indicated to have had Covid 19 was stated to not have been infectious, and so was not a covid 19 health risk, but was brought in to be treated for complications that arose from having had Covid. So is not an example of knowingly importing unecessary risk.

The only knowingly I can discern is that Qld Health is quite rightly helping out a dire situation, and of the many patients brought to Australia one was famous and so became a story when he died. But he was not infectious.




There are returned travellers from PNG, not patients, who have tested positive., and not surprisingly with the CV19 surge in PNG, there was also a rise in CV Cases being detected in Hotel Quarantine.

ie



The recent six in Cairns are Cairns based FIFO workers detected in hotel quarantine:

The Cairns Hospital is currently treating six patients from PNG — all fly-in fly-out mine workers from Cairns.
Last night's code yellow declaration indicates an internal emergency, with the facility nearing capacity.
Cairns and Hinterland Hospital and Health Service executive director Dr Don Mackie said the six COVID-19 patients, combined with a record 263 patients presenting to the emergency department over the weekend for various issues, had placed "extraordinary pressure" on health staff.
"They've all come from hotel quarantine so the system is working as it should do, but all of those factors combine to put extra pressure on the hospital."

 

lovetravellingoz

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If we aim to help every neighbour who has rising Covid cases before vaccinating our own we are setting ourselves up for one huge fall should the virus come back into the community here.

We only have one neighbour that is a short dinghy ride away.
Boigu Island is the most northerly inhabited island of Queensland and of Australia. It is part of the top-western group of the Torres Strait Islands, which lie in the Torres Strait separating Cape York Peninsula from the island of New Guinea. The mainland of Papua New Guinea is only 6 kilometres away from Boigu
There is free interchange of PNG and Australian Citizens in parts of the Torres Straights. PNG probably is the biggest CV19 threat to Australia at present. So even apart from humanitarian reasons, it makes great sense for Australia to help out PNG.

Plus due to our historical links with PNG we also have a moral obligation to do so.
 

Lynda2475

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And again you reply as if I said we should not help at all which is not something I have ever said.

PNGs proximity which is why we rushed to vaccinate torres straight islanders - yet you arent arguing we should of held off doing that and sent those vaccines to PNG first.

Jake wants us to send more of our vaccines to PNG, I am against that **IF** that includes Pfizer or a material volume of AZ such that our vulnerable people in 1A and 1B would be further delayed in being protected (given the dismally slow start). I will not apologize for wanting Aussie purchased vaccines to be made avalable to vulnerable Australians first.

If you or Jake personally want to donate your dose go ahead, but dont try to volunteer doses meant for those working with Covid positives or other vulnerable Australians.

Morals are relative, PNG is not a dependent territory. The foremost moral obligation of the Australian government is to the Australian people who allow them to lead.
 

lovetravellingoz

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And again you reply as if I said we should not help at all which is not something I have ever said.
More deflection. You have gone off about a situation that would seem does not exist. ie The bringing in of covid patients who could infect people.

If you or Jake personally want to donate your dose go ahead, but dont try to volunteer doses meant for those working with Covid positives or other vulnerable Australians.

Ah, so there is the rub. Your self-interest.


More made up and quite hysterical rubbish by yourself. And as the father of a nurse who has actually cared for many CV19 patients as well as other currently running infectious diseases like TB, as that is her permanent job, quite an appalling comment. However she has great compassion for others including the less fortunate.

You clearly it would seem are worried about Pfizer for yourself and so are ranting about not donating it away. Not that I have seen any such announcements on donating Pfiser anyway. What Australia has donated so far are AZ doses and also is part of the multi-vaccine program to help poorer nations.

I have only ever advocated an orderly and needs based vaccination schedule. You are the one who wanted to be able buy vaccinations, and were advocating schemes to jump the queue with random people rather than just have them issued purely on needs.

When Italy announced the the withholding some AZ from Australia I made the point that they had a greater need because they had people dying.

So yes I see vaccinating the world as an obligation, and part of what needs to be done along with other humanitarian aid.
 
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