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Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

RooFlyer

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Quarantine everyone?
Not so much quarantine everyone (which does occur), but that when the NZ/NSW/NT bubble opened, they had a system in place to deal with it.

Even when Tas borders 'open' in a few days, NSW is not part of it (yet), so they still would have gone into quarantine. I haven't been a fan of that policy for most domestic arrivals for this length of time, but given the conservatism of the Tasmanian health officials, I'd be surprised if they would have let NZ passengers in, even transits. As Tas has no direct overseas arrivals, they are on the lookout for transits. When I arrived from overseas via a night in Adelaide a while back, I had to do the paperwork and 2 weeks at home.
 

33kft

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Quarantine everyone?
Apparently what Victoria should be doing is re-opening hotel quarantine right now, despite not taking international arrivals.

Before the inquiry into the last lot of hotel quarantine for intl arrivals has even handed down their findings, or finished speaking to witnesses

:rolleyes:

Better do what we're told
 

p--and--t

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A couple of observations of someone who escaped the second lockdown after about 2 weeks and who has been in regular contact with quite a few people in Melbourne and regional VIC
1) Introverts, as you would expect, seem to cope better than extroverts
2) Lots of people have a good measure of their lives lived within 5km anyway.
3) Tougher on young adults (20 something’s) who are used to socialising more frequently, than I suspect than those with families

Also, personally I think the negative media focus on the bad bits of the lockdown was not at all helpful to people’s well-being - I noticed some outlets occasionally had more advice on what you can do, but this was less frequent. An example was reminding people they could exercise with one other person who lived up to almost 10km away - by meeting half way.

Also those with very literal personalities probably had it tougher - I mean whilst for a large part of the lockdown you could only be outside your home for 1 hour a day - I think people did realise early on that perhaps police wouldn’t bother trying to establish this, so if you went for an hour walk in the morning and another in the afternoon who would know?

Also there were some entrepreneurs who at least tried to deal with the downside in business by doing some different things like pop up coffee where people were exercising (someone selling coffee from a boat along the Maribyrnong river was an example).
The media has a lot to answer for with respect to mental health.The incessant 24/7 promotion of the most dire predictions and interpretations that totally distorted what was actually happening on the ground to create click bait and evening news headline stories.

Just have to read the opinions in this thread and other forums of people who do not live in Melbourne and have not spent a lot of time here in the last 3-6 months with incorrect views on what restrictions we have actually lived under.

There has never been a total lockdown. Our restrictions have never been the worst in the world.

Despite being debunked by credible sources and people who actually live here. The incorrect statements have been repeated ad nauseam.

Personalities have a lot to do with how different people handled the restrictions. Those who threw their hands in the air, sent all their staff home, complained to the press and sat and sulked.

Others said well how can we pivot and continue to operate and meet all the govs guidelines. I know of many businesses who pivoted relatively rapidly and proud of the fact that some of them are not entitled to jobkeeper as their takings have not dropped sufficiently.

Different groups who are friends of mine running businesses in hospitality and retail are not just surviving but thriving in the restricted environment operating click and collect meal services, or online consults, or home delivery etc. Life is more complicated obviously and profits not as high as they would have been non-covid.

Many have suffered badly when they lost their jobs and the queues at food bank are heart breaking, but overall things need to be put in perspective. Some have been totally overlooked in the support networks such as international students or non-nationals. However we are in a 1:100 year pandemic and nothing is perfect in an uncertain environment.
 
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Just have to read the opinions in this thread and other forums of people Different groups who are friends of mine running businesses in hospitality and retail are not just surviving but thriving in the restricted environment operating click and collect meal services, or online consults, or home delivery etc. Life is more complicated obviously and profits not as high as they would have been non-covid.
It was the same here in Canberra - some gave up, some pivoted. Our favourite bakery pre Covid used to supply many of the restaurants with bread and pastries. After the restrictions they lost all that business, so they started doing home deliveries. They ended up having to take on extra staff to cope with the demand and are actually making more money than they used to.
 

jase05

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Have we had any people from these flights turning up in SA yet? IIRC, no permit needed now for entry into SA from NSW. How long before someone drives across from Broken Hill or via the Sturt Hwy through Vic (which is allowed)?
Still permits required when I flew back from SYD on Monday last week. I am unaware that this has been changed since
 

justinbrett

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Still permits required when I flew back from SYD on Monday last week. I am unaware that this has been changed since
You still need a permit (all interstate arrivals into SA do) you just don’t need an exemption reason.

I think the only states/territories that have border passes which aren’t applied universally is NSW and ACT - which is only applied to the VIC border. QLD, NT, WA, SA and TAS all apply universally regardless of which state you are coming from.
 
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antycbr

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The whole issue of the NZers moving domestically shows so many politicians not understanding freedom of movement within Australia and absence of outbound departure controls at our domestic airports.

Lots of calls on WA social media for some sort of departure control to stop NZers leaving Sydney Airport for WA if they aren't holding a G2G pass - "papers please."

Once a NZ person lands in Sydney they are issued with a SCV444 class visa, which gives them the right of abode. How can an airline seeing someone present at checkin with a NZ passport know if they've arrived 2 hours ago or two years ago? We can't force you to show your drivers license as you may not have one. Will people need to show airline staff tenancy agreements, water bills, rates notices? Unlikely.

The Commonwealth is not going to make it easy for WA and the other states by modifying the conditions of the SCV444 visa to restrict domestic Australian movement. The airlines are not bound by any kind of state government treaty to return people who don't hold a G2G pass, unlike international travel where airlines must repatriate those denied entry to a country back to point of origin. Interstate aviation is regulated by the Commonwealth.

It'll be a cold day in hell before the Commonwealth or NSW Government allows any form of departure control at Sydney Domestic, and WA officers have no legal basis to do so outside WA so people calling for outposted WA police/health officers won't get their wish.

In fact the Commonwealth would be within its rights to boot all of the local police and health officers out of any of the major capital city airports as they are all Commonwealth land.

Once you land in Australia the NZers are "honourary" NSW residents for the purposes of domestic border control.
 

Pushka

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And this is why people get frustrated, well, I get frustrated, with our SA State Government. It's all about the footy! These two photos of the SA Premier were taken at the AFL final Fri and the SANFL final on Sunday. The first with Wanganeen and the second with another Minister in the Govt. Social distancing? Nah, it's the foooooty. They are able to have 27,000 at the footy and only 20,000 at the Christmas Pageant next month. Same venue. Go figure.

EF3278B1-840B-4605-8128-A4BF8A3871DD.jpeg 05CAE320-FC9F-4641-8D32-8BD7434AEB3C.jpeg
 

jase05

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And this is why people get frustrated, well, I get frustrated, with our SA State Government. It's all about the footy! These two photos of the SA Premier were taken at the AFL final Fri and the SANFL final on Sunday. The first with Wanganeen and the second with another Minister in the Govt. Social distancing? Nah, it's the foooooty. They are able to have 27,000 at the footy and only 20,000 at the Christmas Pageant next month. Same venue. Go figure.

View attachment 230856 View attachment 230857
Not a state government decision
Dr Spurrier and Commissioner Stevens set the crowd numbers at Adelaide Oval
 

antycbr

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Not a state government decision
Dr Spurrier and Commissioner Stevens set the crowd numbers at Adelaide Oval
And there we have it. So much for responsible government, where elected officials are accountable for decisions made to the people who elect them.

Our premiers are largely hiding behind unelected and unaccountable health officers.
 

jase05

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And there we have it. So much for responsible government, where elected officials are accountable for decisions made to the people who elect them.

Our premiers are largely hiding behind unelected and unaccountable health officers.
We are still in a State of Emergency so those two wield the power
 

antycbr

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We are still in a State of Emergency so those two wield the power
I'd love to see someone determine if South Australia is justifiably in a State of Emergency. Overuse of this measure is undemocratic and should be used sparingly for genuine emergencies.
 

dajop

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I'd love to see someone determine if South Australia is justifiably in a State of Emergency. Overuse of this measure is undemocratic and should be used sparingly for genuine emergencies.
There was one Premier who got widely criticised, particularly by the Murdoch press for extending the State of Emergency in that state because parliament required to vote for it. Even though he was the one premier who had the most justification to do so. IIRC other premiers got a free pass as they didn’t need to go back to parliament.
 

33kft

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The whole issue of the NZers moving domestically shows so many politicians not understanding freedom of movement within Australia and absence of outbound departure controls at our domestic airports.
Yes, well this NSW and NT travel bubble with NZ has been a flawlessly executed plan from the start. Clearly everyone was briefed and knew what to expect and clearly with execution like this we can look forward to speedy reciprocation on the travel bubble from Ardern. I suspect she sees the arrival of NZers which may under this plan have been offered reciprocal quarantine free travel if she had even an ounce of trust that Australia could pull it off safely returning from Victoria to NZ as a great missed opportunity and she'll see the light shortly. I am sure this flawless execution of reopening to international visitors will have nothing but positive effects on the push to reopen domestic borders which was in the most optimal place it could be prior to this and I see this as a great win for all Australians.

No sarcasm here at all, no sir-ee. Well executed indeed.
 

antycbr

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Yes, well this NSW and NT travel bubble with NZ has been a flawlessly executed plan from the start. Clearly everyone was briefed and knew what to expect and clearly with execution like this we can look forward to speedy reciprocation on the travel bubble from Ardern. I suspect she sees the arrival of NZers which may under this plan have been offered reciprocal quarantine free travel if she had even an ounce of trust that Australia could pull it off safely returning from Victoria to NZ as a great missed opportunity and she'll see the light shortly. I am sure this flawless execution of reopening to international visitors will have nothing but positive effects on the push to reopen domestic borders which was in the most optimal place it could be prior to this and I see this as a great win for all Australians.

No sarcasm here at all, no sir-ee. Well executed indeed.
So what controls do you propose to keep the NZers in their place? Tracking bracelets?

They could just as easily rent a car and drive to Melbourne, and the Victorian Government wouldnt know anything either. There's no police checks on the Hume southbound. Australia isn't set up to have internal borders. If states want to impose them that is on them to enforce and they'd have to enforce entry restrictions as well on their own borders - which Victoria has not done.

Once the NZers are in another jurisdiction whether that be Victoria, Queensland or WA then they are held to the rules of where they are.
 

33kft

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So what controls do you propose to keep the NZers in their place? Tracking bracelets?
I don't think you get the point I'm trying to convey.

I have absolutely no interest in controlling the NZers. I am speaking from the perspective of a Victorian that has conceded for some time now that we are the only situation that we need to be concerned with.

What I find laughable is everyone commenting that this is exactly what was intended. I don't doubt for a moment that it was always going to be a byproduct of the arrangement, but was it sold as such? Simply understanding these arrangements can't be sufficient to then demand that state governments suck it up, they weren't part of the arrangements and they didn't sign up to the plan, and as you say the federal govt is responsible for such arrangements, so why was it sold as being between those states exclusively?





Perhaps state governments assumed the bubble included some additional controls. I don't see how they can be blamed for this situation. Do you think the Victorian government has spent significant amounts of time considering a travel bubble that didn't concern them? I don't care about the NZers, but I know this will be used as fodder for Labor state govts to keep borders shut and I think it was recklessly irresponsible if the federal govt made arrangements that they couldn't support, and I don't get all of the support for it, frankly.

It looks and smells to the average person like a complete farce, undermines our domestic border reopening and frustrates the hell out of me. For all of those who keep repeating that this was expected, why isn't Victoria on the list of states involved? They don't quarantine domestic arrivals, don't take international arrivals and didn't accept the commonwealth definition of a hotspot. The Victorian premier never objected to the entrance of NZ travellers but stated that with $5K fines in Victoria at the moment they haven't been present to understand the restrictions and hadn't been briefed on them, which is why Vic Police were sent to explain their obligations to them. Do we still maintain that this is what the plan was from day 1?

I agree that the domestic borders needed to be loosened but this does not help the cause at all. Without doubt we now have a new sphere that domestic border controls will be seen through - the controlling of movement to offset Federal Govt loosening of the intl borders, for which it is in the interests of state govt to maintain border restrictions to control. That is my problem with this.
 

Pushka

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And there we have it. So much for responsible government, where elected officials are accountable for decisions made to the people who elect them.

Our premiers are largely hiding behind unelected and unaccountable health officers.
This. A million times. The pandemic in SA has released its grip. Must still be vigilant. Yes Social distancing. Yes Test Test Test. But it’s time for the Premier to take charge and of course, listen to his medical advisors but stop just doing the PR lovey dovey stuff and get on with doing his job.
 

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