Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Flying mermaid]

Am i the only one who thinks its crazy that SA is allowing foreign students to fly in from countries with higher rates than Aus (via Singapore) and pay to hotel quarantine but doesn't afford the same opportunity to its own residents returning from Vic?

Personally i do not think we should be making any exemptions for any international arrivals (except returning citizens) before Australians are allowed to travel domestically. If I cant go to Adelaide from Sydney, why should an Indonesian or Indian student be able to? Someone travelling from Indonesia or India has a significantly higher chance having covid than any Australian (even a Victorian) right now.

Im so sick of exemptions for sports people, celebrities and now foreign students.

It’s all about the money. Education means huge dollars to Australia.

 

[dajop]

It's not up to anyone here to define what it means, but that is pretty much what it means.

As distinct from say Locally Transmitted (where you do know the source), or Locally Acquired.

Some countries have a definition where Community Transmission includes both from known sources and from unknown sources, basically anyone acquiring the disease from outside a quarantine facility, having not acquired outside the "community" of interest.

 

[dajop]

It’s all about the money. Education means huge dollars to Australia.

Also presumably, non citizens who are in Australia to study can have their visas cancelled and be required to leave the country for any breaches of either quarantine or public health rules (around things like wearing masks etc). A huge incentive for compliance. Hopefully. Instead of the slap on the wrist with a feather that locals get for breaching same rules.

 

[TomVexille]

It's not up to anyone here to define what it means, but that is pretty much what it means.

As distinct from say Locally Transmitted (where you do know the source), or Locally Acquired.

I agree. But the messaging from governments and media organisations has been less than clear as to what they actually mean. Personally I think some of these politicians love to use the term "Community Transmission" as they know a majority of the public comprehend it to mean the same as locally acquired. It suits a narrative.

 

[jase05]

Am i the only one who thinks its crazy that SA is allowing foreign students to fly in from countries with higher rates than Aus (via Singapore) and pay to hotel quarantine but doesn't afford the same opportunity to its own residents returning from Vic?

Personally i do not think we should be making any exemptions for any international arrivals (except returning citizens) before Australians are allowed to travel domestically. If I cant go to Adelaide from Sydney, why should an Indonesian or Indian student be able to? Someone travelling from Indonesia or India has a significantly higher chance having covid than any Australian (even a Victorian) right now.

Im so sick of exemptions for sports people, celebrities and now foreign students.

Education is a multi billion industry and this is just an initial trial with these 300 students. The Universities are footing the bill for quarantine hotels and it will be a much welcomed boost to our economy if we can attract more.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

On current trends NSW should get back to zero cases well ahead of Victoria, barring some new breach.

I’m not sure this is accurate.

NSW has been having on average more than 1 community transmission case per 2nd day. They are hoping it just ‘burns’ itself out without any further formal measures.

Vic clearly has a higher current average case per day, but has arguably the harshest lockdown seen in Australia with the intension to get to zero community transmission.

Time will tell I guess, but it’s also possible neither will ever get to zero.

 

[Pushka]

Am i the only one who thinks its crazy that SA is allowing foreign students to fly in from countries with higher rates than Aus (via Singapore) and pay to hotel quarantine but doesn't afford the same opportunity to its own residents returning from Vic?

Personally i do not think we should be making any exemptions for any international arrivals (except returning citizens) before Australians are allowed to travel domestically. If I cant go to Adelaide from Sydney, why should an Indonesian or Indian student be able to? Someone travelling from Indonesia or India has a significantly higher chance having covid than any Australian (even a Victorian) right now.

Im so sick of exemptions for sports people, celebrities and now foreign students.

As an SA resident, DO NOT GET ME STARTED ABOUT THIS ABSOLUTE INJUSTICE.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I agree. But the messaging from governments and media organisations has been less than clear as to what they actually mean. Personally I think some of these politicians love to use the term "Community Transmission" as they know a majority of the public comprehend it to mean the same as locally acquired. It suits a narrative.

I think the Qld Premier just playing games with the PM. Seems to love saying doing/asking no more than PM says. All political between Fed and Qld governments

 

[Pushka]

Education is a multi billion industry and this is just an initial trial with these 300 students. The Universities are footing the bill for quarantine hotels and it will be a much welcomed boost to our economy if we can attract more.

And I Would gladly foot the bill but if I dare step foot in Victoria then I do not get this chance as a bona fide SA Resident. Our business clients are Universities and we have suffered financially because of this but there is not a moral compass on earth that considers this right. And moral compasses are all we have right now.

 

[SydneySwan]

As an SA resident, DO NOT GET ME STARTED ABOUT THIS ABSOLUTE INJUSTICE.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. It should not be possible for overseas visitors (students, businessman, whatever,) to be allowed into South Australia but Australian citizens and residents currently in Victoria are not permitted to do so even if they are prepared to do the 14 days mandatory quarantine. The hypocrisy of the SA government is breathtaking. I don't know where the students are coming from but if they are travelling from India, China or Indonesia they are surely at least as risky as allowing in people from Victoria and probably a much riskier proposition. I am not a lawyer but really is the discrimination against Victorians like this even legal?

 

[Pushka]

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. It should not be possible for overseas visitors (students, businessman, whatever,) to be allowed into South Australia but Australian citizens and residents currently in Victoria are not permitted to do so even if they are prepared to do the 14 days mandatory quarantine. The hypocrisy of the SA government is breathtaking. I don't know where the students are coming from but if they are travelling from India, China or Indonesia they are surely at least as risky as allowing in people from Victoria and probably a much riskier proposition. I am not a lawyer but really is the discrimination against Victorians like this even legal?

Yes. But it isnt just Victorians. As a bona fide South Australian resident, if for instance, I am on a plane from Brisbane that for say, a medical emergency, gets diverted to Melbourne, then SA Police will refuse me entry to South Australia, where I live.

 

[DC3]

Who are we shouting at by the way? Our fellow-AFFers? Well the pollies won’t be reading any of this, will they?

 

[Pushka]

Who are we shouting at by the way? Our fellow-AFFers? Well the pollies won’t be reading any of this, will they?

. Injustice is one of my absolute hot buttons. And the SA Premier just threw a sledge hammer on it. And I posted very similarly on the Premiers FB page and also in an email sent to his office.

 

[teammongo]

Never thought I'd see Austrlaian media go down this road - but some thought provoking thoughts indeed:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=325435738867010

View attachment 225579

Sky news - a fountain of knowledge. Rowan Dean likes to quote fictional, non sensical studies like hcqtrial.com. He does not understand how flawed the evidence that he has put forward.

This is from a study from the Royal Society of medicine.


Dean promotes Sweden as example. A country where authorities (Anders Tegnell and his team) publicly predicted 40% seroconversion in Stockholm by May 2020; the actual IgG sero- prevalence was around 15%. Where the case rate/million is 5 times that of its neighbours with a 5700 deaths for 10 million population. The equivalent death toll in Australia would be 13,500 with 200,000 infections. Nothing to be proud of and nothing to emulate.

The cartoon shows how little some people understand of disease and death.
Of the top 20 causes of death in the Australian population under 5% is primarily attributable to infectious disease.
You can't catch Coronary heart disease, Dementia including Alzheimer disease, Cerebrovascular disease, Lung cancer, Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, Colorectal cancer, Diabetes, Prostate cancer, Heart failure and complications of heart disease.
They are not infectious.
COVID19 is, which means that while the death toll is "only" currently hundreds there is still time to get to the lofty heights of the USA with 16,000 cases per million (or the equivalent in Australia of 400,000 cases). With ill informed, non sensical posts as what is being put forward, you may get your wish.

TM

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The question I have, is this second wave more virulent than the first wave? The first wave, despite numerous comparable quarantine breaches (i.e. when people who were supposed to be self isolating after returning from overseas, were not) did seem to substantially die out, yet this strains seems to have spread like wildfire. I guess there are many social factors as well as the virus itself, it the guards could have been super-spreaders (unlike previous breachees), the environmental conditions meant more people inside (i.e. b@#dy freezing outside) and therefore it spread more easily, different demographics involved (i.e. people relying on going to work to survive vs. travellers returning from overseas who may not have been more economically advantaged), people suffering restriction fatigue etc.

I recall reading though inn the US the first wave of spread on the east coast was from a European strain, more virulent than the Asian strain that caused most of the initial cases on the west coast.

If I recall Sutton correctly when he reflected on whether the virus was more virulent in the second wave than the first he indicated no.

Some thoughts:

• First wave:
  • Was often in more affluent households. More space, less people per household and more able to not have to work
  • Was mainly from returning travellers and so much easier to identify likely cases and contacts
• Second wave:
  • Groups like security guards who did not present to be tested
  • More lower paid workers, but this time more who also had dependent families, and so were more inclined to keep working and not be tested, and even when tested keep working even if positive
  • Lowly paid workers are a feature in aged care facilities (We saw this throughout Australia in the first wave, but they were mainly returned international travellers rather than infected via community spread)
  • Workplaces often more crowded and often physical . ie Abattoirs, distribution centres
  • Larger numbers of people per household, and also more multi-generational households
  • More family to family transmission (which is why after the second wave took off this was one of the first controls brought back in)
  • More populations who a had distrust of authority
  • More populations with language difficulties
  • Once community spread was rampant the spread just getting wider and wider and particularly through multiple workplaces.

 

[jakeseven7]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour from QLD government.

Updated for those up thread.... seems every state government is now feeling the brunt of these ridiculous border closures.

——-
Queensland rejects entry to NSW mother of sick newborn over coronavirus quarantine

A young mother from northern New South Wales has been refused entry into a Queensland hospital where her newborn baby is receiving urgent medical treatment.

One senior doctor says the decision borders on medical negligence because newborns need their mothers' immunity; "It borders on medical negligence actually because sick babies need their mother's immunity," paediatrician Chris Ingall said.

The baby was born with extremely low oxygen levels, which required urgent intervention.

Ms Mortensen has set up an online petition demanding answers from Queensland Health.

The same day Harvey was born, there was supposed to be an easing of restrictions that would allow northern NSW residents to travel across the border for essential medical appointments.

Queensland hospital rejects entry to NSW mother of sick newborn

A young mother from northern New South Wales is refused entry into a Queensland hospital where her newborn baby is receiving medical treatment.

mobile.abc.net.au

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Am i the only one who thinks its crazy that SA is allowing foreign students to fly in from countries with higher rates than Aus (via Singapore) and pay to hotel quarantine but doesn't afford the same opportunity to its own residents returning from Vic?

Personally i do not think we should be making any exemptions for any international arrivals (except returning citizens) before Australians are allowed to travel domestically. If I cant go to Adelaide from Sydney, why should an Indonesian or Indian student be able to? Someone travelling from Indonesia or India has a significantly higher chance having covid than any Australian (even a Victorian) right now.

Im so sick of exemptions for sports people, celebrities and now foreign students.

Serious question.

If the vaccines do not work, or just take some time to be deployed (and given the size of the world's population this second point seems most likely) how does the Australian economy survive, and how do we as a country earn enough to pay for the imports we need as a country (medicines, technology, machinery etc) if we do not take measures to start re-activating as much of the economy as can safely be done so.

International students , sport and entertainment (including the making of movies and tv shows etc) are all sectors struggling at present. All employ many people. We need to get these sectors and other sectors re-activated where possible as so as we can reasonably do so in a reasonably safe manner.

ScoMo and the Federal Government can only subsidise things for so long, and the debt that is building is going to have to be paid back from future earnings. The longer the reactivation takes, the greater the debt. And that is just the $$$. The mounting toll in human misery is mounting.

As you are not in favour of re-activating these parts of our economy, where do you instead propose to get the money from?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

SMH.com.au reporting:

Almost entire second wave in Victoria linked to returning travellers
By Michael Fowler

Genomic sequencing shows more than 99 per cent of Victoria’s second wave of coronavirus can be linked to returned travellers in hotel quarantine, the inquiry into Victoria’s hotel quarantine program has heard. Professor Ben Howden, head of the Doherty Institute’s genomic sequencing unit, is now giving evidence at the inquiry into Victoria’s hotel quarantine program.

Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton has previously said their genomic sequencing showed most, if not all, of Victoria’s second wave of coronavirus, could be linked to hotel quarantine leaks, though the government has refused to release the sequencing report.

Interestingly, Professor Howden said the genetic signature of COVID-19 has the equivalent of 30,000 letters in a row. Genomic sequencing attempts to identify those letters and put them in order. Experts can then compare the different signatures - or strains of the virus - to see if they are the same.

In the case of hotel quarantine, experts can compare the genetic signature of COVID-19 in a security guard to the genetic signature in another person in Melbourne weeks later. If they are the same, that indicates the other person's virus can be linked to the security guard, indirectly or directly.

Explaining the genomic sequencing provided to the Victorian government, Professor Howden said from the start of June, three strains of COVID-19 have been detected, each imported from overseas. That indicates coronavirus was leaked into Victoria from at least three breaches from quarantine hotels, via security guards and workers

“What I could say, a high-level statement would be, that over 99 per cent of all current cases in Victoria for which we have genome sequences are derived from [those three sequences],” Professor Howden said.

“Such that essentially all current cases, bar a few, are from those [three sequences]." Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton and Premier Daniel Andrews have previously said “at least a significant portion” of Victoria’s second wave is due to hotel quarantine breaches.

Professor Howden, head of genomic sequencing at the Doherty Insitute, said his unit had analysed 46 per cent of Victoria’s total cases up to July 23. He confirmed their data showed the strains of COVID-19 from Victoria’s first wave had died out by late May and early June, when the second wave began to spread.

Thanks for that. Part of that was known as several sources including Sutton had indicated that the second wave was primarily, if not totally, from a different source that the first wave. The three strains is new, as it was only previously hinted that there were two strains.

Three strains also means that the recently reported Patient Zero in the night manager would only have been one of three such patient zeros.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I read earlier today that an expert testified that three separate sources caused the current wave. I can’t find the link I was reading but see that the Australian (not that I read the Australian -paywalls) carries a similar story

Edit I see Lynda2475 picked up this point up thread

 

[dajop]

As you are not in favour of re-activating these parts of our economy, where do you instead propose to get the money from?

I personally am in favour of re-activating those parts of the economy, but not the double standards that says that a South Australian resident - someone who actually lives in South Australia and already calls the place home - can't return from Victoria, even in quarantine.