Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

kyle

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I really don’t get what Dan is trying to do. Doubling down on more restrictions, but most of the cases are from permitted activities anyway. 🤷‍♂️
 

nutwood

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Its a dangerously slippery slope though. Even in this forum alone we can all at least agree on one fact; plenty of people aren’t happy with and don’t agree with governments actions. If we’re actually at the point where the government is imprisoning people purely to stop them protesting, then I’m not sure there’s any going back.

For what it’s worth, we’ve now converted a protester into a criminal and, as history will show, prison only tends to send them further down that road.
Most likely he's busily learning how to spell martyr without the assistance of electronic word completion. It'll be interesting to see how long a memory his supporters have. I suspect instant communication is a double edged sword and three months out of the loop might be a severe career blow.
 

MEL_Traveller

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Its a dangerously slippery slope though. Even in this forum alone we can all at least agree on one fact; plenty of people aren’t happy with and don’t agree with governments actions. If we’re actually at the point where the government is imprisoning people purely to stop them protesting, then I’m not sure there’s any going back.

For what it’s worth, we’ve now converted a protester into a criminal and, as history will show, prison only tends to send them further down that road.

It's not protesting per se that has been banned.

It is protesting when the health risks are too dangerous and outweigh other considerations.

There is no evidence to suggest Australia is looking to curtail that the ability to protest once the health risks are managed.
 

N860CR

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It's not protesting per se that has been banned.

It is protesting when the health risks are too dangerous and outweigh other considerations.

There is no evidence to suggest Australia is looking to curtail that the ability to protest once the health risks are managed.

Well… it is. The fact that government can just say “health risk” and throw everything out the window is a concern. When WA gets to 80% and McGowen is still locking down, is it ok to imprison people for protesting? Where do we draw the line?
 

kyle

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It's not protesting per se that has been banned.

It is protesting when the health risks are too dangerous and outweigh other considerations.

There is no evidence to suggest Australia is looking to curtail that the ability to protest once the health risks are managed.
So how can we legitimately protest against the lockdown and the curfew in Vic and voice our displeasure about the current measures?
 

jakeseven7

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I really don’t get what Dan is trying to do. Doubling down on more restrictions, but most of the cases are from permitted activities anyway. 🤷‍♂️

It’s exactly the same path Sydney are going… and increasing restrictions is just going to punish those doing the right things whilst the people doing the wrong things will continue anyway, so what’s the end result? Nothing.
 
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Seat0B

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They'd better get some communications to business quick smart about

a) can we lawfully ask for vaccination status
b) where you can actually buy roughly 1400 RATs that we need for one week of our operations - waste services so kinda essential
c) who is going to administer, process and record the RATs to ensure compliance with the same law.
Sounds like a procurement nightmare.
 

ethernet

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Yeah I agree on the last point.

I'm betting once we get to 80% we will have no idea how much covid is circulating, as testing will slow down dramatically. Contact tracing will be impossible. There won't be any controlling outbreaks.

But it won't matter, due to the vaccination rate. I think NSW will get up to 90%+ vaccination, government is not shying away from making it mandatory for industries and certain activities.
80% is a decoy number, a nudge. The determinant will be real world ICU/Hospital breaking points. Iceland got up to 93% and is having breakthrough infections. UK is going up, but if you count prior infections, 90% is not too far from the mark. Plus compliance for a round three shot will be another rollout hiccup. Plus age will probably have to be expanded to 12 and up. There is a conflict of interest between Cwth and States about who ponies up outbreak costs and at what point.

The assumption that children will not be spreaders of significance is broken. Geographic containment assumptions are proving to be stubbornly difficult while both sides have tried to wimp out of wearing the heat for mandatory vaccinations and not bringing in a France like greencard. I foresee NSW washing its hands when everyone in NSW has had the opportunity to be vaccinated.
 

kpc

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80% is a decoy number, a nudge. The determinant will be real world ICU/Hospital breaking points.
This will determine what is relaxed when we hit 80%+ vaccination rates. What is happening in Sydney metro hospitals atm is very alarming!
 

Saab34

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Looks like Vic will adopt some pretty full on measures tomorrow. All sorts of rumors swirling however the H Sun is normally on the ball.
 

justinbrett

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No need for a ring of steel....

But in all seriousness, this is very concerning. Everywhere we get a positive test (Auckland, Dubbo, Shepperton) - they do testing and find dozens more.

It makes you wonder how much virus is circulating when we're not looking.
 

Saab34

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Was never enough Police resources for checkpoints into the regions in Vic. 2
Was a struggle last year. Sadly. Probably cost regional a lockdown indefinitely now.
 

N860CR

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But in all seriousness, this is very concerning. Everywhere we get a positive test (Auckland, Dubbo, Shepperton) - they do testing and find dozens more.

It makes you wonder how much virus is circulating when we're not looking.

Yep, no doubt heaps of it. Even in NSW, do we think it’s only a few hundred a day? Nobody likes to acknowledge it though as it dilutes the data even further.
 

lovetravellingoz

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Looks like Vic will adopt some pretty full on measures tomorrow. All sorts of rumors swirling however the H Sun is normally on the ball.

Well reading a screen shot that article that someone tweeted, regional lockdown measures and then just a lot of speculation of possible extra restrictions for Melbourne.


Lockdown for at least Shepparton as a minimum would not surprise anyone as Shepparton is large and very much a regional hub. Many people commute to Shepparton as well for work. Shep is so well connected that you would imagine that they would lockdown a lot more than just the The City of Greater Shepparton.
 

MEL_Traveller

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Well… it is. The fact that government can just say “health risk” and throw everything out the window is a concern. When WA gets to 80% and McGowen is still locking down, is it ok to imprison people for protesting? Where do we draw the line?
It's a global pandemic. We've seen what that pandemic has done in other countries. No one is refuting the potential for the virus to cause harm if not contained in the current state with low vaccination rates.

IIRC the Victorian state of emergency powers were extended after agreement by parliament, one of the chambers of which Labor does not control. Arguably the majority has ruled on this one.

So how can we legitimately protest against the lockdown and the curfew in Vic and voice our displeasure about the current measures?

Petition parliament (for example in Vic Parliament of Victoria - Petitions). Online campaigns. Writing to MPs, particularly to opposition or minor parties who might hold the balance of power. Writing letters to the editor.
 

lovetravellingoz

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The frustrating thing about Shep is that they have been pushing for people in Shep to get tested for over a week, and yet it took till at least yesterday for someone to do so despite that fact that there were at least 17 people positive by then and quite likely more. They will not all have been asymptomatic.

  • Shepparton – three repeat detections in the period of interest 9-16 August. A recent positive case identified in the Shepparton area explains the most recent wastewater detection. However, the period of interest remains a concern. Anyone who works or have visited that area between 9 and 16 August is encouraged to come forward for testing, even if they are not showing symptoms.
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N860CR

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It's a global pandemic. We've seen what that pandemic has done in other countries. No one is refuting the potential for the virus to cause harm if not contained in the current state with low vaccination rates.

Global pandemic or not, there needs to be a level of reasonableness. Australia has the most severe restrictions of virtually any country on the planet, we have a very highly funded health system and we have about a third of the population vaccinated and nearly half of those who are at risk. This extreme blunt stick approach (we’re talking about people potentially having almost zero human interaction for up to 4 months) is not justified and not reasonable.

This quest for “covid zero” is as irresponsible as it is idiotic
 

MEL_Traveller

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Global pandemic or not, there needs to be a level of reasonableness. Australia has the most severe restrictions of virtually any country on the planet, we have a very highly funded health system and we have about a third of the population vaccinated and nearly half of those who are at risk. This extreme blunt stick approach (we’re talking about people potentially having almost zero human interaction for up to 4 months) is not justified and not reasonable.

This quest for “covid zero” is as irresponsible as it is idiotic

Forget covid zero. This is a battle just to flatten the curve.

There are bubbles in place, provisions for care, and compassionate grounds. There’s telephone and for those equipped, various online visual platforms. Plenty of people are working remotely within fully functioning virtual offices and organisations.

In the previous discussion on protests everyone agreed the protesters’ demands - a full and complete lifting of all restrictions and ending the lockdown - were premature and not reasonable in the current situation. So what is the argument about here? Just to be allowed to protest for the sake of protest during a pandemic?
 

N860CR

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Forget covid zero. This is a battle just to flatten the curve.

Which has well and truly been achieved and we have rapidly increasing vaccination rates, so restrictions should be softening not getting more severe.


So what is the argument about here? Just to be allowed to protest for the sake of protest during a pandemic?

To an extent, yes. If we let this extreme breach of our basic rights slip, what’s next? As I’ve said before, there is no way government is ever giving up all of these new found powers. They’ve already openly misused QR code data. It’s critical that we don’t allow things to go too far.

Again, we’re talking about three deaths in over 2 months. How much flatter do we make that curve?
 

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