Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[bcworld]

People essentially victim blaming those that get covid and then get hospitalised - don't really see the real picture of those less affluent - unable to get appointments, ineligible even three weeks ago. So more hubris/hype.

Yes I find that very distasteful. Particularly some in this thread who have spent the past months demonising a vaccine that is the one the vast majority of those dying were actually eligible for.

 

[justinbrett]

You work you way down the likelihood of transmission risk. And also looking at reward (Take away food is allowing many small businesses to survive)?

People when they shop do it mainly indoors and are then inside for a much longer period than it takes to pick up takeaway. There have been cases of staff to shopper transmission, and also of shopper to shopper transmission.

Have there been cases due to people picking up takeway in Vic?

• I don't recall one being discussed in the last few outbreaks. Indeed I am not sure if there has been one at all.
• The prepared food related cases have been at dine in establishments before lockdown. ie Ms Frankies
• A lot of take away is delivered
• What is picked up is often done by not entering indoors _ Where you do have to go inside to pickup there is a limit on how many people can be inside.
• Though yes when cases were rampant in the Vic Second Wave take-away did become delivery only. If cases did climb that could well come back in.

Now the concern has been people gathering to consume outside a take-away business as people gathering and talking is of course a transmission risk. So the coffee shops have been cracked down on in South Yarra who would turning a blind eye to the people sitting outside, and the cannot remove your mask rule brought in to make it easier for police to enforce. Plus the pubs involved have had it reinforced that they cannot serve people who do not actually go away.

If you actually read my posts I was talking about the unnecessary workplaces being open, not the customers. There's been quite a few cases in Sydney fast food workplaces.

 

[justinbrett]

Demographics perhaps? The world over, the disease has disproportionately affected lower socioeconomic groups, for various reasons.

Um, I'm not sure you know much about Newcastle with that statement (median income in the Newcastle LGA is pretty much smack bang on the NSW average - and would be higher for non-Sydney LGAs). Newcastle is a city and has both rich and poor areas like any city.

 

[jakeseven7]

Yes I find that very distasteful. Particularly some in this thread who have spent the past months demonising a vaccine that is the one the vast majority of those dying were actually eligible for.

This sad irony has not gone unnoticed that’s for sure…

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I think you would find almost universal agreement that we would accept this.

I think this is the announced plan, even if the wording is somewhat rubbery. So it is just a matter of getting vaccinations high enough so that deaths and other severe illness from Covid is at an acceptable level. What those acceptable levels end up being is anyone's guess.

Hopefully we get there soon.

Yes.

How soon is a little problematic though as after having gone slow, we are now rapidly accelerating and so that will probably mean proportionately more people that have only been vaccinating recently and so still building protection.

Plus the UK has the advantage (not in past harm, but in assisting to prevent future harm) of I believe having had about 20% of its population having had Covid, including the many dead. How much difference this makes would be hard to quantify, but you would imagine that it would assist.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

If you actually read my posts I was talking about the unnecessary workplaces being open, not the customers. There's been quite a few cases in Sydney fast food workplaces.

I did read your post, and your posted started I'm actually surprised fast food is still open in Melbourne

So I was discussing Melbourne. In this outbreak in Melbourne, or the last one, we are not having the Sydney fast food worker transmission experience that you speak of. If we did then settings may well be different.

So the settings in Melbourne address the transmission patterns here.

 

[justinbrett]

I did read your post, and your posted started I'm actually surprised fast food is still open in Melbourne

So I was discussing Melbourne. In this outbreak in Melbourne, or the last one, we are not having the Sydney fast food worker transmission experience that you speak of. If we did then settings may well be different.

So the settings in Melbourne address the transmission patterns here.

I'm not sure why you think Melbourne would fare any different to Sydney if/when the outbreak gets to the same scale. It's all about reducing the number of people leaving their home. As for your previous large outbreak, you didn't have delta, which does effect young people who typically work at these locations.

If you advocate for a curfew, why would you then allow tens of thousands of people to be out running food and beverage outlets? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

I probably should stop looking for logic, that's probably where I'm going wrong.

 

[oznflfan]

Plus the UK has the advantage (not in past harm, but in assisting to prevent future harm) of I believe having had about 20% of its population having had Covid, including the many dead. How much difference this makes would be hard to quantify, but you would imagine that it would assist.

This was always going to be the issue. Strengthened us in first half of COVID, meh to whatever, we are all safe. Second (hopefully final) half of COVID we were always going to be in the poo. Always, and government knew that - you know 'It's not a race'. 1A-2B a farce as well. Four stage opening plan will also be a farce by end of next year.

Hoping my magic May date next year we are all fully open, protected and either or close to being able to leave the country.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Hoping my magic May date next year we are all fully open, protected and either or close to being able to leave the country.

Personally I think May is very achievable. Indeed I now think since vaccinations and supply have boot surged that it will be a lot earlier.

Though "fully open" may well start with various restrictions. Like for example it may be that only vaccinated people can fly in and out of Australia.

 

[bcworld]

So I was discussing Melbourne. In this outbreak in Melbourne, or the last one, we are not having the Sydney fast food worker transmission experience that you speak of. If we did then settings may well be different.

Here's a fresh one for you!



Can't quite work out the times which are quite precise. Doesn't seem like it would be staff (unless sick staff member gets sent home). Or a customer. Uber Eats driver would need to be coming and going multiple times.

Actually 3 Maccas entries in this afternoon's updates.

 

[burmans]

James is from Daily Tele. Andrew Connell is from Sky.

Don't think anyone should be shedding tears that News Corp is holding right wing governments to account, it proves the Krudd crowd wrong that they only go after the left.

Not about holding them to account, I don't see how asking the same question over and over again and expecting a different answer is helpful and deprives the rest of the journalists an opportunity to ask questions that may in fact seek to delve further into the facts (and hold people to account).

In fact to me its a reminder of the quote about insanity, which doesn't do much for my impression of their intelligence.

 

[Lynda2475]

Employers now get access to employees medical records?

LOL no need, you just show your vaccine certificate, the same way you have to show (and keep current) other licenses, certifications and ID to get many jobs.

You cant enter a club or night club without being a member and/or showing govenrment issued ID, you can be required to show ID to order alchol in licensed venues.

If you have an objection to vaccine passport, you'll be stuck in Australia, as the world is requiring them. Just like may countries require proof of Yellow fever vaccination to enter if you have been somewhere where Yellow fever is circulating.

herpes? HIV?

Ridiculous examples since you cant catch those by simply being in an indoor space with a carrier, transmission requires intimate contact something super easy to avoid unless you are in the habit of hooking up with randoms and dont take precautions.

he app on their phone

Its not about the app, its about being vaccinated. You are less likley to catch, spread or get seriously ill if you are vaccinated, so significantly less of a risk and much less of a burden as someone who doesnt bother and ends up in hospital.

No one in ICU right now is double jabbed.

 

[sjk]

Plus the UK has the advantage (not in past harm, but in assisting to prevent future harm) of I believe having had about 20% of its population having had Covid, including the many dead. How much difference this makes would be hard to quantify, but you would imagine that it would assist.

Hard to quantify, yes, but it has a huge impact because most signs are that naturally acquired immunity is superior to vaccine-conferred immunity (and some people now have both).

 

[lovetravellingoz]

If you advocate for a curfew, why would you then allow tens of thousands of people to be out running food and beverage outlets?

I don't see the connection.

Many such business are family operations who are together anyway. And there has not been rampant transmission through such businesses in Victoria in recent outbreaks. We could drive them all into bankruptcy for little reason .

Whereas we know that people are out late at night gathering in breach of the rules. No curfew makes it way too easy for such people to just state they are out shopping when go too and from such gatherings.

So far in this outbreak in Victoria they key drivers have been people not doing what they should, and not the ones following the rules and guidelines.

Which is not to say that people following the rules do not get infected, or spread, as they do.

It makes absolutely no sense to me.

I probably should stop looking for logic, that's probably where I'm going wrong.

I did not actually advocate for a curfew. But I do understand its use from time to time. It is just one of many valid tools.


On the curfew though, who does it really effect in a negative way? It makes it slightly inconvenient for some, but in the main it only really effects those not doing what they should be doing.

For most following the lockdown rules it just means that they cannot grocery shop between 9pm and 5am.


If NSW Health chooses to not have a curfew all well and good. Personally I think it can help. However as I have repeatedly said it is not any one measure that counts, but a suite of measures.


If Sydney has a problem with many takeway food workers infecting each other, then maybe NSW Health should address it?

 

[oznflfan]

Personally I think May is very achievable. Indeed I now think since vaccinations and supply have boot surged that it will be a lot earlier.

Though "fully open" may well start with various restrictions. Like for example it may be that only vaccinated people can fly in and out of Australia.

Just seems so unattainable right now though, with PM and Premiers seemingly COVID Zero in perpetuity (even though they backtrack, then re-state COVID Zero like attitude again).

July 2022 I'm also OK with, even just Singapore, something to get out of Australia for a week or two (preferably though Malaysia or Cambodia - Singapore a bit sterile). Prefer Europe even more, and given their vaccination rates vastly higher than ours, should be no brainer.

 

[justinbrett]

I don't see the connection.

Many such business are family operations who are together anyway. And there has not been rampant transmission through such businesses in Victoria in recent outbreaks. We could drive them all into bankruptcy for little reason .

Whereas we know that people are out late at night gathering in breach of the rules. No curfew makes it way too easy for such people to just state they are out shopping when go too and from such gatherings.

So far in this outbreak in Victoria they key drivers have been people not doing what they should, and not the ones following the rules and guidelines.



I did not actually advocate for a curfew. But I do understand its use from time to time.


On the curfew though, who does it really effect in a negative way? It makes it slightly inconvenient for some, but in the main it only really effects those not doing what they should be doing.

For most following the lockdown rules it just means that they cannot grocery shop between 9pm and 5am.


If NSW Health chooses to d[not have a curfew all well and good. Personally I think it can help.


If Sydney has a problem with many takeway food workers infecting each other, then maybe NSW Health should address it?

Sorry, still no logic. I'm not sure you get the point of stay at home measures if you advocate for an entire industry to not stay at home. Yet we limit outdoor construction to 25%?

And I think you've got a very romantic view of the Melbourne F&B industry that they're mostly run by families - in the lower socio-economic areas where covid usually spreads faster, it's mostly Maccas, KFC, Hungry Jacks, Dominos etc, usually staffed by teenagers or people in their early 20s - making up a huge percentage of the Delta Outbreaks in NSW & QLD.

And are Melbourne workplaces different to Sydney? Do they have some magic covid repellent that they don't have north of the border? It doesn't matter what the workplace is, if it has four walls and a roof, it's a risk of spreading covid. You make the decision whether it's worth them staying open. NSW has said they can - but they are not also saying don't go to the supermarket daily (Victoria has) or putting in curfews.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Here's a fresh one for you!

View attachment 255893

Can't quite work out the times which are quite precise. Doesn't seem like it would be staff (unless sick staff member gets sent home). Or a customer. Uber Eats driver would need to be coming and going multiple times.

Actually 3 Maccas entries in this afternoon's updates.

Yes that means an infectious person visited the site and potentially could have infected someone. It does not mean that a transmission event occurred. But the potential is there for it to be a Tier1.

Up till that one duration has been a lot briefer though.

90 minutes suggest not just someone getting takeway, unless they were not really sure exactly when they were there and so have estimated a longer period.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2021

And are Melbourne workplaces different to Sydney?

We don't have the rampant community transmission that Sydney has.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

making up a huge percentage of the Delta Outbreaks in NSW & QLD.

Again I was referencing the current outbreak in Melbourne.

 

[justinbrett]

We don't have the rampant community transmission that Sydney has.

Melbourne has had more cases in this outbreak than Sydney did at the same point in time, despite Melbourne locking down on Day 1/2 and Sydney delaying.

There's no guarantee Melbourne won't have the same trajectory.

 

[bcworld]

Comparison of Vic 2020 vs NSW 2021

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427816148163125252