Australian Customs Officials Will Search Your Laptop For cough

[JohnK]

Oh my. Does that mean I have to declare my prescription medicines on my return? But then, the wording of the question is funny because those medicines are not then subject to restrictions because I've got a script from an Aust doctor? Confusing.

Technically you do. I tick yes to that question and when they ask what I have to declare I simply say "returning with my own prescription medicines". End of story and I am on my way. I do have a letter from my GP but no one has ever asked to see it.

 

[blueflamenco]

They not going to start labelling people criminals at random. Although it is easy to understand how an interrogation would make someone feel like a criminal, that is the nature of the beast. However a simple apology with an explanation can sometimes go a long way - run into someone on a power trip and they can make you feel this big.

I don't think it unreasonable for JohnK to have concerns- after all he had the experience, not anyone else.

As to the broader question - sure if this practice has a good hit rate it seems worthwhile - if it is merely posturing to pander to particular interest groups and proves ineffective (one would expect a certain number of "hits" per annum), then better ways spending our resources should be found. It's no good saying "oh if it saves one child from a scumbag that's justification", NO IT'S NOT. If the resources could be spent elsewhere and wouldn't save anyone then yes that's fine. If the resources spent elsewhere could save 2 dozen children instead of one then it doesn't seem justified.

I think we could argue all day about how to best use the resources and everyone will have their own opinions about this. That's not what I really thought was the issue here. Obviously there are other ways to catch child predators. And I don't know enough about the effectiveness of this procedure to agree or disagree with it but... My point was, why the fuss about it?

It seems as though the only problem people have with it is the fact they suffer an inconvenience. Or that it is somehow invading their privacy. Or they are embarrassed in front of others. :shock:

 

[blueflamenco]

If you still want to take this stance then fine. I know exactly what I went through and how the customs/AQIS officers presented themselves. If you treat someone like a criminal you may as well call them a criminal.

I'm sure some of them have attitude and have witnessed enough episodes with the TSA to know that people in uniform can occasionally get carried away... But isn't it all about how you take it? It seems like you took this to heart. You can't control how other people treat you or behave toward you so why not just brush it off? If you know you are an innocent traveler and a good person, don't let it get to you

 

[dajop]

It seems as though the only problem people have with it is the fact they suffer an inconvenience. Or that it is somehow invading their privacy. Or they are embarrassed in front of others. :shock:

I think the fuss is about the inconvenience, censorship and moreso about the invasion of privacy. One could get into a long debate about the tradeoff between rights to privacy vs the greater good, but my own opinion if it works then it's probably OK, give it a try - but if after a period of time (say a year or 2) it is not proving effective then give people their privacy back and try something different.

 

[Alanslegal]

The article mentioned in the OP has a very one sided approach. I guarantee you no-one cares about what sex tapes you made on your holidays or what nude pictures you carry of your girlfriend on your phone. Customs are looking for one thing - illegal coughography.

Yes, they say all coughography but you should be able to read between the lines. If you have legal coughography it is handed back. If you have illegal coughography it is not.

Like the food question. Do they really care if you have some Reeses Peanut Butter Cups or a stick of rock from the UK? No. They care about certain types of food - but if you carry any food you need to say so. Do you cause a kerfuffle about that? Does this impede upon your freedom?

Whats the big deal? Who is carrying around homemade sex tapes anyway? Who even makes home made sex tapes?! Or don't I want to know..

this is a fictional story:

One day, not too far from today, I will be getting married. I imagine it to be this, after 12 hours on-board a Qantas A380 being pampered like a celebrity in the First Class cabin, we finally land at our destination where we greet our awaiting driver. A VIP escort through immigration where a sparkling graphite coloured BMW 760iL is awaiting for us, to take us for a 60 minute flowing drive, to the couples only resort where the price of villas start at $3K per night. The driver swings open the rear doors and we slide into the soft tan leather seats, with individual electronic controls operating the recline and the massage function. But as quickly as I get comfortable, my eyes focuses to the centre console where I see a bottle of champagne on ice, I quickly take the bottle when my gorgeous wife quickly says "darling, that's so sweet, its my favourite" before giving me the juiciest kiss we've enjoyed to date, then proceeding to enjoy our complimentary drink.

The smoothest of rides, I fall in love with the 760iL and promise my wife that I would work 100 hours a week when we get back home, just so we could buy one. But an hour later, we pull into the grand driveway of our resort just as the last drops of the Bollinger is being consumed. The rear door is opened and we are sincerely greeted by the Resort Owner and a few of his staff. The owner warmly congratulates the both of us for our union and intoduces us to staff, the butler, the maid, the porters and then emphasising that all are requests will be taken care of, anywhere, anytime.

After some private and personal chat, the owner announces "would you like me to escort you to your villa Mr and Mrs Alanslegal?". We agree, and we are lead by the owner, the butler and a series of porters with our bags not far behind.

After walking through a series of paths, lined by tropical foilage, flowing creek, a pond, and manicured lawns, we arrive at our private villa. The owner hands us the keys and proudly announces that "we'd like you to enjoy your special occasion here with us, in our presidential villa - the most luxurious villa we have on our exclusive island - at over 650 square metres in total".

A quick click and the double oversized doors open to reveal a marble foyer with 15 foor ceilings. I am speechless, as is my wife. We are in awe, as Mr. Resort Owner kindly advised that he'll be off now, as our luggage gets taken to our master bedroom where I have given permission for the butler to unpack our belongings and place them inside the walk in robe.

The foyer leads to a living area that then flows through an expansive entertaining outdoor terrace overlooking the beach directly in front. Going back inside, there is a commercial sized kitchen and what appears to be handcrafted 13 piece dining suite, absolutely gorgeous. Mind you, my newly acquired camera has been recording, as I do a complete video tour blog of our amazing villa ready to show the family when we return home. We pause at our master bedroom, as I carry my wife wrapped in my arms - like they do in the movies - and bring her into the bedroom. The red wooded four post bed dominates the room, complimenting it with crystal white linen and contrasting brown pillows. Rose petals are carefully littered from the door towards the bed, and a set of heart shape designs are gently placed on the white sheets. This is super-deliciously romantic I hear my mind quickly wander.

As this is our once in a lifetime honeymoon and to remember, we agree to create a personal and very very very intimate and private DVD, one that only WE can look at and that nobody else in this whole wide world will see

That first night was truly amazing, it was my and her first time ever and those three hours of love making on our first night of forever together, was awesome. No words could ever come close to describing how it was but I hope my the 64gb SD card was big enough to record the whole scene but I hold doubts as it was in Full HD movie mode.

The following morning, after our breakfast in bed was delivered; organic vegetables, free range eggs, turkish raisin toast with a side of home made jam; I quickly transfer my 64gb file to my new laptop and rename it to AmazingHoneyMoon001.mpeg and place it under directory C:\Honeymoon2010\Movies\ . I then free the space on my SD card, ready for another day of photo taking and moving making.

About an hour later, I wonder around only to see my naked wife taking a shower under the outdoor monsoon shower which is located on the wraparound balcony off the master bedroom. In the spur of the moment, I turn on the camera and start recording, firstly from afar, and then as I participate together in some playful activity. Thankfully I had opted for the more expensive but newer shockproof and waterproof camera, as I still record. Another amazing event, named AmazingHoneyMoon002.mpeg.

Fast forward a week later and we reluctantly leave our week of sensational fun; the swimming, the snorkelling, the couple massages and body treatments, the private boat cruises, the sunset dinners on the beach, the bonfires late in the evening under a full moon and a million of stars. This honeymoon was absolutely perfect!

The return flight in First Class was just as flawless as the outbound leg, and we were glad to have arrived home safely once again - you see, I have a bit of a fear for flying. The dreaded Customs and Immigration is upon us where in the past I have always been pulled up because of their undeclared profiling techniques. This time I am hopeful because I am now happily married and my stunning wife is next to me - as previously I travelled alot on my own and often arriving in from south east asia and that looked bad - even though I never did anything illegal in my life or have any bad bone in my body.

I quickly peruse my incoming passenger declaration card, as I have done so many many times before in my travels; am I carrying food? am I carrying more than USD$10K? am I in possession of any coughography? ..... what the?? my mind shockingly says to itself. I re-read the question one more time, then a second and then a third .... I then realise this question is real. I think about my C:\Honeymoon2010\Movies\ and my C:\Honeymoon2010\Pictures\ directories and then hesitantly cross the "Yes" box.

As I arrive at Customs, Mr Customs nows question me "did you complete this form by yourself? is this your signature?" as I answer yes to both, he advises me to follow him to Private Room #1 where Mr Customs Manager joins in the meeting, as well as Miss Customs Trainee. Mr Customs announces that "since you declared you are in possession of coughography, we require to examine your laptop". I insist that they have to be kidding and that there is laws against this kind of inspections! I explain that I have never done anything illegal in my life, have been a good responsible citizen, and that the cough material I posess is private and something was taken on our honeymoon between my wife and I.

The rules are the rules according to the Customs people and that I either do it their hard way or I do it their even harder way - it's my call apparently and if I comply, I would be completed in 30minutes. Even though I argue with all my might especially my LLB degree should have taught me some advocacy skills, some negotiation practice, some dispute resolution but this is all to no avail - and this feels like what happens in Iraq or North Korea or so what I have read about those countries anyway.

I decide on the hard way, not the harder way, and hand over my laptop. I direct them to C:\HoneyMoon2010\ and again caution them that it's my personal honeymoon videos. As Mr Customs double clicks on file AmazingHoneyMoon023.mpeg but Media Player surprisingly does not load. He barks that the files should be unencrypted and unprotected for examination and warns me for hindering their inspection, and that Customs have IT specialist if need be. I quickly announce that it is not protected but he should try again.

This time, the double click works, and the file loads up. Why is the volume at maximum level??!??!?!?! I am embarassed and ashamed, feeling disgusted and personally violated that now three people are watching me and my wife make out against the balcony railings, then proceeding to the hot tub. I shout "this is wrong guys" but I am ignored. I am threatened to behave or be taken away.

After watching a series of clips and viewing some more hot photos, the Customs people are satisfied that my home made honeymoon videos are all legitimate - as I advised inititally.

Feeling violated, humiliated, tormented and legally harassed, I feel the long term effects of never trusting a customs officer again. Was it because they were having a boring day, that they decided to have cheap thrills looking at cough? The Customs folks were wrong, were always wrong, would not even listen to me, and in the end, would never apologise. It's easier to squeeze blood out of a stone, then getting an apology from a customs officer.

end of story

 

[medhead]

I hope you all enjoyed your hush money from KFlex and Swannie. You can use your Rudd bucks for phonecards so you can do what the Cubans do and dial overseas to get some unrestricted access. $900 should be good for 10-15 hours of air time to some place with more relaxed rules on thought control - like North Korea.

I got to your post and I couldn't be bother reading any further.

First point, This is not new. There is a whole thread or two on here from like 2 years ago about the fact that customs can require you to submit your laptop for examination. So the SEX PARTY has been bloody slow on this, or gizmondo is slow reporting.

Second point, The comparison with North Korea is just plain wrong. I'd rather have my laptop searched in order to stop child cough, than follow the North Korean process on thought control which involves a bullet in the back of the head. You've made a totally outrageous comparison and I can only suggest you go live in North Korea if you think it is so much better than Australia.

 

[samh004]

That must have taken you a while to write, but I think it illustrates a very good hypothetical. Not every worker is a professional, and it could happen to you…

 

[medhead]

- and this feels like what happens in Iraq or North Korea or so what I have read about those countries anyway.

Another joker. In North Korea you answer yes and they take you out and shoot you in the back of the head. No searching computers, not legal nicities. Kneel down, BANG.

As for saddam's Iraq, that sick sod, would get your kids and wife and run a spit through them lengthwise.

And meanwhile, in your fictional world, just on the otherside of the fence from your resort. A 4 year old child is being sold into sex slavery for the price of the cork in the bottle of champers in the back of your 760il.

 

[samh004]

Another joker. In North Korea you answer yes and they take you out and shoot you in the back of the head. No searching computers, not legal nicities. Kneel down, BANG.

I wouldn’t have expected them to allow you to leave in the first place.

And meanwhile, in your fictional world, just on the otherside of the fence from your resort. A 4 year old child is being sold into sex slavery for the price of the cork in the bottle of champers in the back of your 760il.

And because that child is being sold into sex slavery it’s OK for your privacy to be violated?

The last few paragraphs could be a worst case scenario, but not all customs agents are going to be pleasant about it and it’s a very real threat to your privacy, yet it’s fine because something happened next door that you didn’t know about, couldn’t have known about, and definitely didn’t instigate?

**** happens, and because of it, human rights are thrown out the window. Sounds like an awesome world we live in

 

[Alanslegal]

medhead, I think you have taken my post way out of proportion.

There has to be a balance between illegal activities verus personal liberties. Sorry but my story was more about the view that privacy invasion is serious and real (just like your argument that the risk of illegal coughography is also serious and real)

And my reference to countries .... whether accurate or not is not the point, the point was that both reference countries are bad and that 'the character' believed the treatment he was getting was extremely 'bad' (given that he has had the time of his life.)

 

[Alanslegal]

And my reference to countries .... whether accurate or not is not the point, the point was that both reference countries are bad and that 'the character' believed the treatment he was getting was extremely 'bad' (given that he has had the time of his life.)

And i'll expand more that the characters feeling was that no amount of reasoning, advocacy, negotiations, or dispute resolution would work or be heard by the customs people - and this is an analogy to which i've read sounds similar to some dictatorships eg. in iraq and north korea.

 

[drron]

And i'll expand more that the characters feeling was that no amount of reasoning, advocacy, negotiations, or dispute resolution would work or be heard by the customs people - and this is an analogy to which i've read sounds similar to some dictatorships eg. in iraq and north korea.

And Alan your scenario has some truth to it.At LHR in the episode I noted previously I pointed out to the security personnel what the problem was,offered to pull up my trouser leg so they could see,or they could just do a pat down of my right knee but no,off to the room and strip.
And Dajop has the right idea-this should be assessed as to whether it is effective or just a waste of time therefore of the people's money.In 1-2 years if no child coughographer has been caught the question should be dropped.Period.

 

[harvyk]

And meanwhile, in your fictional world, just on the otherside of the fence from your resort. A 4 year old child is being sold into sex slavery for the price of the cork in the bottle of champers in the back of your 760il.

and yet meanwhile, whilst alanslegal is providing front row seats for his most private and initimate moments, that child is still being sold into sex slavery, because the perverted people who make this stuff don't really care about "the end user".

It would be far better to target the people who make the stuff, rather than target "the end user".

There is an arguement that without the end user, the people who make CP would no longer have a market. Now whilst I expect to a degree this is true, I also expect there is a large percentage of people who make CP because they enjoy making CP... It is those people who should be targetted. By actively looking for the people who make CP you are actually protecting kids from such sick individuals, rather than this be seeing to do something and yet doing nothing at all approach which gov't of the world seem to like right now...

 

[Dave Noble]

and yet meanwhile, whilst alanslegal is providing front row seats for his most private and initimate moments, that child is still being sold into sex slavery, because the perverted people who make this stuff don't really care about "the end user".

It would be far better to target the people who make the stuff, rather than target "the end user".

Best to target all that are committing criminal offences in this manner. It is a fairly serious crime regardless.

 

[pomjim]

As most children are molested by adults they know, the obvious thing to do is remove all children form the family home and have them live elsewhere. Now this may sound stupud, but if it saves even one child then it is worth it.

 

[Alanslegal]

I think the fuss is about the inconvenience, censorship and moreso about the invasion of privacy. One could get into a long debate about the tradeoff between rights to privacy vs the greater good, but my own opinion if it works then it's probably OK, give it a try - but if after a period of time (say a year or 2) it is not proving effective then give people their privacy back and try something different.

Exactly, and I posted earlier that I think it would take too much effort, be too labour intensive and imo would yield very little results.

Just because you do not declare it on your incoming form, customs officers can still pull someone over for an inspection just like they have always do. So imagine for pofiling sake, that every solo male of any age arriving in from BKK,HKT,SGN,DPS should be a candidates for coughography breaches.

And now there is more publicity regarding this issue, I would logically say that those who are doing illegal things on their laptops are likely to be more prudent (even though they may be pretty incompetent in the first place).

 

[ejb]

As most children are molested by adults they know, the obvious thing to do is remove all children form the family home and have them live elsewhere. Now this may sound stupud, but if it saves even one child then it is worth it.

but then children are also molested whilst in state care, so they should be removed from there to.

The only safe thing is to put all children on an island away from adults.

However sometimes children harm other children so..........

I am all for stopping CP but this measure will have no impact on the children being harmed so it is just a measure to make us all feel warm inside that we are saving the kiddies. Instead we should be pressuring govt's to do something worthwhile about this disgusting trade.

ejb

 

[samh004]

but then children are also molested whilst in state care, so they should be removed from there to.

The only safe thing is to put all children on an island away from adults.

However sometimes children harm other children so......….

So we put them on separate islands… I’ll get Dubai to make a few more

 

[rwatts]

but then children are also molested whilst in state care, so they should be removed from there to.

The only safe thing is to put all children on an island away from adults.

However sometimes children harm other children so..........

I am all for stopping CP but this measure will have no impact on the children being harmed so it is just a measure to make us all feel warm inside that we are saving the kiddies. Instead we should be pressuring govt's to do something worthwhile about this disgusting trade.

ejb

Well molestation is usually a different issue to CP. The "commercial" trade in CP is demand-driven. Reduce the willingness of the end purchaser to obtain the material and you might have some effect. Making the possibility of being caught by customs more obvious to the traveller by putting the question on the arrivals card just might help (a very tiny bit).

OTH the especially nasty stuff is often not sold as such but traded within very tight communities using very sophisticated techniques and will not be detected by customs.

As has been pointed out the topic of customs inspecting computers and related media was discussed on AFF only a year or two ago. From memory it was just after a couple of publicised detections. One I recall was an overseas airline flight crew member arriving at ADL.

I am particularly cynical at times, but it seems to me that the press release by the industry association concerned is self-serving: "Don't risk obtaining cheap cough overseas and off the internet - buy good safe Aussie-made product !"

Richard.

 

[harvyk]

Best to target all that are committing criminal offences in this manner. It is a fairly serious crime regardless.

If the end user is caught I personally believe throw the book at them, place them in a cell and throw away the key...

It's just I think some common sense needs to be applied into how to use the limit resources in it's most effective ways and do things which will actually prevent people from producing the material, and thus reduce peoples ability from getting hold of it.

Searching for cough on a laptop coming into the country is about as ineffective as one can get, as there are many types of digital media's available these days, and some are so small in physical size that they can be easily hidden.

Not to mention that it would be easy to configure a machine in such a way that there is no way the average customs person would find the material.