ATR's being removed entirely from QLD routes from July

[Deleted member 29185]

So, we've known for a while that VA are planning to lose the E90's and considerably reduce the ATR's and it's now apparently confirmed that all ATR services in Qld will finish in July. The ATR compliment will reduce to just 6 aircraft and will service the CBR-MEL/SYD routes.

Well, I for one am certainly not unhappy about that as the VA ATR's suck big time IMHO, but I do worry about a contracting VA regional network. The last thing needed is for Q Link to have a host of routes with little or no competition.

Further cements VA as an airline with absolutely no idea of where it's going. Time JB moved on I think. He hasn't been able fulfil his promises/dreams and he's run out of ideas and cash. Interesting to see if the ATR QLD routes dry up or whether they do actually farm them out to Reliance.

 

[Muppet501st]

Whilst not a fan of the ATR- and would select my flights to avoid them, this cant be good for competition.
Are there any airports VA currently fly the ATR into that the 737 cant ?

 

[Justchecking]

The ATR compliment will reduce to just 6 aircraft and will service the CBR-MEL/SYD routes.

So what happens to the NSW regional routes that were serviced by the ATR? ABX, PQQ? VA going to drop them completely? They aren't 737 ports. I'm quite frankly surprised they are dropping this aircraft. Props are the backbone of any airline that tries to cover the Aus and indeed most markets. I thought their introduction was actually a smart move enabling them to have a true Aus wide network that they could never have had as VB. There are too many regional airports that need props and can't support a jet operation. This just seems like a bad move for VA, back to the old Virgin Blue days eh with 50 odd 737's domestically?

I used to fly on the PQQ route quite regularly and it was often full. Not as if the ATR was carrying 20 pax a day. I'm frankly astounded they are not making $$$ with these.

 

[Melburnian1]

Do the higher 'mainline' airline pilot salaries, plus on costs help to 'kill' such smaller aircraft for VA?

 

[Justchecking]

Do the higher 'mainline' airline pilot salaries, plus on costs help to 'kill' such smaller aircraft for VA?

ATR was never flown by mainline, the entire operation was Virgin Regional with a completely different EBA. So don't think that's the problem. If that's what you mean. In any case it's a sad old end for Skywest that was it's own thing until Virgin got hold of it, gave it an aircraft to fly then scrapped the whole idea. What a bum deal for all the people that used to be involved there.
.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

It's certainly impressive that VA couldn't make the ATRs work - the aircraft have such a reputation for being a money-maker! I wonder if the lease terms made them too expensive to compete against the little Dash 8s but even then they should've cleaned the floor with the big Dash 8s.

In BNE I predict that we'll see the end of BDB, MOV and PQQ while the 737 will serve GLT and ROK. MOV probably doesn't need any more services anyway given the downturn while Fly Corporate could serve BDB with their SAAB and PQQ might support a Jetgo Embraer jet.

 

[dajop]

At the other end of the country I noticed that the ERJ service to MQL has been upgauged to a 73H.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

Flying 737s MEL-MQL and BNE-GLT sounds like a good way to send your airline broke but maybe if you take into account the savings from ditching E90s and AT72s from BNE, plus all the associated infrastructure, VA will be better off overall.

 

[pauly7]

Flying 737s MEL-MQL and BNE-GLT sounds like a good way to send your airline broke but maybe if you take into account the savings from ditching E90s and AT72s from BNE, plus all the associated infrastructure, VA will be better off overall.

The Embraer disaster has cost VA an absolute fortune and is often touted as a turning point of VA making some painful long term decisions that cost them dearly.
However I'm surprised that couldn't make the ATR's work and would love some expert insight there... Ceding to QFlink means letting QF domestic mainline have a nice little yield friendly kick up with all the flow on traffic as well.
Cut to champagne glass a clinking in Mascot.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Whilst not a fan of the ATR- and would select my flights to avoid them, this cant be good for competition.
Are there any airports VA currently fly the ATR into that the 737 cant ?

Cloncurry? Moranbah? Emerald?

 

[Justchecking]

The Embraer disaster has cost VA an absolute fortune and is often touted as a turning point of VA making some painful long term decisions that cost them dearly.

Which makes one wonder why the costly decisions continued on well after Godfrey's departure and in new and interesting forms. *Raises eyebrow*. I still need to know why an ATR is not working for them when it works perfectly well for hundreds of airlines across the globe and is the most fuel efficient prop per seat.

 

[eastwest101]

Without the E190 Mt Isa will drop to once a day B738s services, as others have pointed out without smaller aircraft VA will struggle to serve a lot of ports in regional WA, QLD and NT, they will be screwed when tourism and the mining industry pick up again as they won't have the fleet to expand. Despite what you read in the mainstream press the resources industry is already starting to pick up again.

This also means QF monopolies on more routes without any Rex competition, expect regional airfares to go up in some places.

 

[Justchecking]

Without the E190 Mt Isa will drop to once a day B738s services, as others have pointed out without smaller aircraft VA will struggle to serve a lot of ports in regional WA, QLD and NT, they will be screwed when tourism and the mining industry pick up again as they won't have the fleet to expand. Despite what you read in the mainstream press the resources industry is already starting to pick up again.

Yes this. IMO VA has a history of being an airline strategically managed with a 12 month timeframe in mind. Adhoc changes year after year trying to stem reported losses and rejigging of the network this quarter in an attempt to make the next quarter look better. It has no more longterm strategy now than when Godfrey was head of it 7yrs ago. They should have just set about creating a robust domestic airline with short haul intl ops.

You don't have a robust domestic airline without regional reach, aside from the trunk routes, most airline routes in Aus are regional and you need an aircraft that can do that. 737, in this country are NOT a regional aircraft.

 

[oz_mark]

Yes this. IMO VA has a history of being an airline strategically managed with a 12 month timeframe in mind. Adhoc changes year after year trying to stem reported losses and rejigging of the network this quarter in an attempt to make the next quarter look better. It has no more longterm strategy now than when Godfrey was head of it 7yrs ago. They should have just set about creating a robust domestic airline with short haul intl ops.

You don't have a robust domestic airline without regional reach, aside from the trunk routes, most airline routes in Aus are regional and you need an aircraft that can do that. 737, in this country are NOT a regional aircraft.

I suspect that you will see one of the other regional players operating services on behalf of VA....

 

[Pleb Status]

VARA will still operate the F100 directly in WA and via QQ elsewhere.

Looking at the link in the OP, the total traffic on the QLD ATR routes has reduced significantly and someone had to reduce services to match. With VA being the financially weaker airline, they had to act first to reduce service.

 

[Bundy Bear]

I was not surprised that VA announced removal of E190 but I am surprised they are getting rid of a lot more ATR72s than I would have expected.

ATR72-500 I can understand them going and 2 of the ATR-72-600 is a surprise unless 2 of the 600s are different to the other 6 x ATR-72-600

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few routes get the chop including Bundaberg, in Qld Alliance can do some work for Virgin with there F70 and F100s.

In NSW and Victoria Rex might be able to pick up a bit of work, as well as Jetgo and Fly Corporate.

Jetgo currently fly a plane to Port Macquarie, from Melbourne(Essendon) they may consider flying onto Brisbane.

Jetgo fly a few weird routes including Rockhampton to the Gold Coast so maybe they could try something different.

 

[MH_fan]

I wonder if the problem is with the -600, as the regional airlines in Malaysia (Firefly, MASwings and even Malindo) are keeping their -500s and ditching the -600s. Apparently, the -600s are more expensive maintenance-wise, as parts are not only harder to come by (for some strange reason) but also more expensive. Do VARA still have any of the -500s left or had they replaced them all with the -600s?
Personally, I don't get the hate for the ATR72s. The -600s are much nicer than the -500s (in terms of cabin comfort in my experience). They're comfortable, quieter and can actually fit a decent-sized carry-on in the overhead bin! I've never been a fan of the Dash8s (even the -400s).

 

[VOZ102]

Look out for some Jetgo operations in this space on behalf of virgin.

 

[Justchecking]

Look out for some Jetgo operations in this space on behalf of virgin.

Using Embraer aircraft. Oh the irony. So JetGo can run these routes profitably with Embraer's but a larger, better equipped airline with a larger fleet of Embraer's and turboprops can't. Kay....

 

[kamchatsky]

Are the Embraer's maintenance cost that high?

I am just surprised with the removal of ATR-72s. I fly them to CBR and I have no problems with them. I think the speed of mining economy collapse really hurts VA.

Seriously though, if VA are going to fly regional, what is the best aircraft for VA? Surely the ATRs are probably the best bet?