ATO (tax office) payments by credit card

[Pointy Bird]

The reason I keep paying for points is that we do not know how long the "good times" are going to last. It's already harder than it was a few years ago...
Although it is a lot of points, we do burn through about 2,000,000 points per year.
I hope that Amex will continue with its current policy of permitting indefinite warehousing of points.

 

[lilkid28]

The reason I keep paying for points is that we do not know how long the "good times" are going to last. It's already harder than it was a few years ago...
Although it is a lot of points, we do burn through about 2,000,000 points per year.
I hope that Amex will continue with its current policy of permitting indefinite warehousing of points.

Nice point balance. Just need to take more vacations to stay on top of points.

What sort of business yields such a high turnover?

 

[Saltywings]

The reason I keep paying for points is that we do not know how long the "good times" are going to last. It's already harder than it was a few years ago...
Although it is a lot of points, we do burn through about 2,000,000 points per year.
I hope that Amex will continue with its current policy of permitting indefinite warehousing of points.

I understand your logic, I think we just have different thresholds. 2.4% of $5m is $120k which is many, many cash J/F fares. Or a couple of really lavish holidays (or many, many more modest ones). An alternative lens on this is that I can turn $120k into something much more than that through my investments, which with points generally devaluing in the medium to long term, means hoarding points balances above my threshold make very little sense. For me, that threshold is a comfortable 4-5m points (about 1.2m MR, 3m VFF, 1.2m QF at current counts). Of course I also don't burn 2m points per annum (I only wish I had that time), so definitely a different set of scales here!

But respect, in any case

 

[Saltywings]

Nice point balance. Just need to take more vacations to stay on top of points.

What sort of business yields such a high turnover?

One that, not knowing anything else, incurs lots of costs /facetious

 

[Pointy Bird]

I understand your logic, I think we just have different thresholds. 2.4% of $5m is $120k which is many, many cash J/F fares. Or a couple of really lavish holidays (or many, many more modest ones). An alternative lens on this is that I can turn $120k into something much more than that through my investments, which with points generally devaluing in the medium to long term, means hoarding points balances above my threshold make very little sense. For me, that threshold is a comfortable 4-5m points (about 1.2m MR, 3m VFF, 1.2m QF at current counts). Of course I also don't burn 2m points per annum (I only wish I had that time), so definitely a different set of scales here!

But respect, in any case

I don't think $120,000 is a lot of money to spend for that point balance. With tax deductions for ATO expenses ( accountant approved), I am paying less than $3000 per return 1st class flight to Europe ( Suite Savers). Surely that is better value than most investment?
Although you could use the $120,000 for cash J or F fares, you would not come close to 33 return flights in first.
Even without ATO tax deductions, my calculations are that it is money well spent - every time I fly at the pointy end I remind myself that I have spent as much as some people spend on an economy seat.

 

[Saltywings]

I don't think $120,000 is a lot of money to spend for that point balance. With tax deductions for ATO expenses ( accountant approved), I am paying less than $3000 per return 1st class flight to Europe ( Suite Savers). Surely that is better value than most investment?
Although you could use the $120,000 for cash J or F fares, you would not come close to 33 return flights in first.
Even without ATO tax deductions, my calculations are that it is money well spent - every time I fly at the pointy end I remind myself that I have spent as much as some people spend on an economy seat.

Agreed, but we're making different points (oh god, pun totally unintended).

I'm more limited by time than points, and as someone in their 20s with a lifetime of compounding ahead of me, it makes more sense to put $120k into the stock market that averages 7% over the long term before dividends (and that's the easy example, my investments have far better yields). Compare this, versus sinking that money to earn points which I realistically wouldn't ever get around to using because I already generate enough points to cover all my normal projected travel from non-surcharged expenses alone. Not to mention that those points will lose an annualised, arbitrarily-chosen value of say, 2%/year in the long run (and most AFFers would probably agree that that's conservative, given the cadence of devaluations)

Hypothetical: if your normal, non-surcharged spend generates enough points to comfortably cover your travel patterns till the end of your days, why would you then pay 2.4% on top for more that you can't use? That is my situation. But as I said, I understand yours is likely different.

Anyways while this is good discussion it is technically getting off topic. /backtothread

 

[cove]

I have moved down to two different cards where one has a 0.78% fee and the other 0.52% fee which may be tax deductible for some.
Gone is the Westpac Kris Flyer Amex which was a bit more expensive but earned more Miles.
We have plenty of points and Miles as our ATO payments are not insignificant and we have been going at this since this thread started.
Sure I miss using Amex Ultimate, Citi Prestige, Westpac Kris Flyer Amex and some US credit cards but you have to move with the changes.
I have managed to stop the points and Miles totals from growing this year with lots of flights.

 

[SoftDraw]

If I'm understanding properly, rewardpay could be used as a tool to 'buy points' albeit at 2.64%? (Higher than the IG days ).

Eg. we are about 40k points short of the next redemption we are planning. Mrs SoftDraw runs her own small business so could essentially sign up to rewardpay and deposit/pay to my bank account $20,000 in order for us to generate the 40k points we require?

I understand the fee associated however as we spend on average 6/7k a month on the card I would be happy to pay the fee in order to get the flights we want rather than hoping availability doesn't disappear while waiting for normal points earn.

Am I missing something? Any tips would help (sorry am just learning about reward pay now).

 

[albyd]

Hi SoftDraw, your theory sounds ok. Just be aware that if you're paying yourself through RewardPay, Amex frowns on that and there are reports on AFF of Amex cancelling MR account which would defeat the purpose of what you're trying to achieve.

 

[Scr77]

If I'm understanding properly, rewardpay could be used as a tool to 'buy points' albeit at 2.64%? (Higher than the IG days ).

Eg. we are about 40k points short of the next redemption we are planning. Mrs SoftDraw runs her own small business so could essentially sign up to rewardpay and deposit/pay to my bank account $20,000 in order for us to generate the 40k points we require?

I understand the fee associated however as we spend on average 6/7k a month on the card I would be happy to pay the fee in order to get the flights we want rather than hoping availability doesn't disappear while waiting for normal points earn.

Am I missing something? Any tips would help (sorry am just learning about reward pay now).

Use EBP. I’ll private message you with full name.

 

[cove]

One of the problems of having zillions of points and Miles is if you drop off the perch. I feel confident my family would know what to do as they already use some of our stash.

 

[SoftDraw]

Hi SoftDraw, your theory sounds ok. Just be aware that if you're paying yourself through RewardPay, Amex frowns on that and there are reports on AFF of Amex cancelling MR account which would defeat the purpose of what you're trying to achieve.

Thanks albyd, not sure how Amex systems work but if my wife is paying into my account I think it would be hard for Amex to pick up on it, especially as she doesn't have my last name.

 

[deka2]

Does EBP allow bills to be paid by Amex?

I can’t seen to find an answer on their site

 

[Scr77]

Does EBP allow bills to be paid by Amex?

I can’t seen to find an answer on their site

No. Just visa and MasterCard.

 

[tuan_nobel]

it seems EBP isn't compatible with vs1. Just wondering there's anywhere vs1 is accepted that can be used to pay bill? rather than directly?

 

[albyd]

I was thinking of trying EBP for these. Thanks for the heads up. Shame it doesn’t work - esp as the merchant fee to EBP for debit cards would be substantially cheaper than the 0.8% they’re charging for loads that it might be profitable for them

 

[potm]

The reason I keep paying for points is that we do not know how long the "good times" are going to last. It's already harder than it was a few years ago...
Although it is a lot of points, we do burn through about 2,000,000 points per year.
I hope that Amex will continue with its current policy of permitting indefinite warehousing of points.

I think the biggest risk with a large Amex points balance is not that they'll stop letting you warehouse your points but that they change the redemption rates or remove redemption options. You'd like to hope they'll give some notice but it's not always the case.

I try to spread my points around a bit to cover my needs. SPG was another flexible points program that was excellent for warehousing points in. When you have and generate more points than you can use, having not just your flights but also your accomodation taken care off at very favourable rates was an excellent use of points. Unfortunately Amex devalued the transfer rate to SPG without notice (a good example of the risks of holding a large Amex MR balance) so the options are a lot more limited now.

I agree with both Pointy End and Saltywings posts above. It's good to make hay while the sun is shining because we don't know how long it will still be shining. This has to be weighed up against the monetary costs of gaining points and each individual person's circumstances. For me, the larger my points balance grows, the less I am willing to pay for more points. Also the lower value I am willing to utilise them for when making the choice between using cash and points.

 

[cove]

I am back running up Kris Miles as they are so easy to use for long hauls out of Perth thru Singapore.
I stopped using Amex cards when they dropped the earn rate on ATO to 0.5 per dollar.

 

[Saltywings]

I think the biggest risk with a large Amex points balance is not that they'll stop letting you warehouse your points but that they change the redemption rates or remove redemption options. You'd like to hope they'll give some notice but it's not always the case.

I hadn't even thought to mention this in making my above points, agreed. To look at it another way, when the balance is sufficiently large, it's akin to carrying dead money that devalues faster than the rate of inflation.

For me, the larger my points balance grows, the less I am willing to pay for more points. Also the lower value I am willing to utilise them for when making the choice between using cash and points.

So much this.

 

[bbqwer]

Anyone got this recently ? I had it today:


We have noticed some unusual transactions attempted on your EBP account and therefore your account has been temporarily disabled. We would like to rectify this matter quickly so you can continue to use your account. Therefore we are asking you to provide evidence that you are the authorised cardholder of the facilities you are using. To do so please provide a copy of your driver’s license and a copy of each card used showing your name and the last four digits of each card used for your Easy Bill Pay transactions. You can take a photo of these and send to Easy Bill Pay.
We appreciate your assistance.

Regards
Easy Bill Pay