Ato, claiming meals when working away from home etc

[horseman]

Hi all,
so, my previous employer had me on the road a lot, and as such spent a lot of time away from home.
Now my employer would give me a per diem when away from home of average around 30 bucks a day (to help cover meals), looking at the ato website they give tables for reasonable expenses when working away from home for meals and incidentals, which is quite a lot more than what I received from my employer.
i know this is something I should talk to my accountant on, however it's worth a shot, I'm sure someone's familiar with this stuff.
My employer gave me about a fifth of what the ato says is reasonable, can I claim the difference without receipts?

Thanks guys and gals

 

[Moopere]

I do not believe you will get anywhere without receipts unless your total claim for everything is < $300

 

[markis10]

I do not believe you will get anywhere without receipts unless your total claim for everything is < $300

Not always the case, the ATO has special rules if the person is on a travel allowance.

 

[serfty]

The "reasonable expense limits" are those that up to which the ATO does not require "substantiation" (although the expenditure must have occurred).

There are specific limits based on each day/night.

The limits vary with 3 different bands depending on one's annual income/salary.

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[horseman]

Yeah I have diary entry's and flight bookings to prove I was in these places, just don't have receipts for every meal, though the per diem I was given was nowhere near enough to cover the cost of meals etc whilst away.
at the time I looked at the per diem as just bridging the gap between what eating wold cost at home compared to being away. However if the ato are willing to I've me some back, I'm willing to take it.

 

[markis10]

Are you paid a travel allowance?

 

[horseman]

I was reimbursed for flights and accommodation, and then paid a certain amount for breakfast lunch and dinner, averaging about 30 a day when traveling. However this isn't part of my pay packet and won't be shown on my group certificate (those funds were transferred into my account from overseas). my normal pay came from a local company and I will be getting a group cert for that side of things of course

 

[horseman]

Not sure how legal that way of doing this was either, another reason why I bailed on that particular career

 

[Moopere]

The "reasonable expense limits" are those that up to which the ATO does not require "substantiation" (although the expenditure must have occurred).

There are specific limits based on each day/night.

The limits vary with 3 different bands depending on one's annual income/salary.

You know, I've read this in years gone by and always struggled with it. If the expenditure must have occurred to claim it, yet you don't need substantiation .... what does that actually mean in real terms? Even placing myself away from home via old tickets or a diary is a form of substantiation.

 

[deejo77]

Go to ato.gov.au
Go to the search - tick the box under legal data base
Type in TD 2010/19 for the 2011 year
Type in TD 201/17 for the 2012 year

This Determination should be read together with Taxation Ruling TR 2004/6 Income tax : substantiation exception for [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]reasonable[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]travel[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] overtime [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]meal[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] expenses which explains the substantiation exception [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] the way in which these expenses are able to be claimed. It is important to remember that when 'setting the [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]reasonable[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] amount ... the Commissioner does not determine the amount of [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] an employee should receive or an employer should pay their employees. The amount of an [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] is a matter to be determined between the payer [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] the payee'. (Refer to paragraph 33 of TR 2004/6.)



3. Key points from TR 2004/6 about claiming [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]travel[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] expenses [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] overtime [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]meal[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] expenses are:

· Claim must be allowable - A deduction claim cannot exceed the amount actually incurred for work-related purposes. The payment of an [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] does not of itself allow a deduction to be claimed. · [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]Allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] must be paid - The substantiation exception only applies if the employee is paid an overtime [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]meal[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] or a [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]travel[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE]. The [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] must have an identifiable connection with the nature of the expense covered. · For [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]travel[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] expenses - The employee must sleep away from home. · Substantiation exception - Where the amount claimed is no more than the applicable [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]reasonable[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] amount, substantiation of the claim with written evidence is not required. · Claims in excess of [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]reasonable[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] amounts - If the amount claimed is more than the [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]reasonable[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] amount, the whole claim must be substantiated, not just the excess. · Verification of [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]reasonable[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] claims - In appropriate cases, where the substantiation exception is relied on, the employee may still be required to show:

- how they worked out their claim; - an entitlement to a deduction (for example that work-related [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]travel[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] was undertaken); - a bona fide [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]travel[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]allowance[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] was paid; [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] - if accommodation is claimed, that commercial accommodation was used.​

The nature [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] degree of evidence will depend on the circumstances: for example the circumstances under which the employer pays allowances, the occupation of the employee, [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] the total amount of allowances received [SIZE=+1]«[/SIZE]and[SIZE=+1]»[/SIZE] claimed during the year by the employee.

Only info I can provide you - don't stuff it up as the penalties can be harsh (up to 75%)
​

 

[Solid]

With all due respect to the members on this forum - get some proper advice rather than Internet advice.

If you get it wrong can you resort to the "advice" here to justify your claim with the ATO? That's what you pay a professional for.

 

[serfty]

You know, I've read this in years gone by and always struggled with it. If the expenditure must have occurred to claim it, yet you don't need substantiation .... what does that actually mean in real terms? Even placing myself away from home via old tickets or a diary is a form of substantiation.

The difference is that that up to the published daily limit, the ATO will take your signed statement (e.g. a formal tax return) that you incurred the expenses as sole proof while, if the amount is greater than those limits, the entire expenditure has to be substantiated (e.g. with receipts/tax invoices).

To put it another way - up to those limits they'll take your word for it.

For a PAYG employee to be formally paid and be able to simply claim, the total of such allowance paid in a year should be shown on the PAYG Payment Summary (individual non business). (If not it can still get done but requires more work ...)

Seems like horseman's boss is simply paying petty cash. If these payments are revealed to the ATO, they can become taxable.

If the limits seem high, remember they are set by Public Servants (in Canberra and elsewhere) who may have a view/opinion(/need?) on the cost of travel that differs significantly from those of many similarly employed people in the private sectors.

...
My employer gave me about a fifth of what the ato says is reasonable, can I claim the difference without receipts?

Thanks guys and gals

I am personally aware of at least one person who travelled a lot in the course of their private sector employment who was paid an allowance significantly lower than the ATO limits. With the assistant of their accountant they were able to quite legally claim expenses higher than the actual paid allowance (but below the "reasonable" limits) - this difference was deducted from their total remuneration for the purposes of tax assessment.

Here are a couple of previous threads on a similar/realted topics:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....d-weekly-commute-talk-37148-2.html#post571314

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/open-discussion/its-tax-time-again-10425.html

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ns/o-s-travel-deductions-9952.html#post127057

 

[Febs]

My employer gave me about a fifth of what the ato says is reasonable, can I claim the difference without receipts?

Yes you can. Speak to your accountant. If they say no, find a better one.

 

[userlame]

Ok, I'm a bit naive when it comes to tax matters. Can anyone answer this for me? I spent 80 days away over the last financial year. I have a company credit card to which I charge most things (hotels, flights, resturant meals, etc). I still have some out of pocket expenses for incidentals (basically anything I can't charge back to my hotel room or pay with my company card). What am I entitled to claim (if anything)?

Also, can we claim travel toiletries?

 

[Sprucegoose]

If someone has a very switched on tax advisor/accountant in Melbourne, could you please PM me.

thnxs

 

[markis10]

Ok, I'm a bit naive when it comes to tax matters. Can anyone answer this for me? I spent 80 days away over the last financial year. I have a company credit card to which I charge most things (hotels, flights, resturant meals, etc). I still have some out of pocket expenses for incidentals (basically anything I can't charge back to my hotel room or pay with my company card). What am I entitled to claim (if anything)?

Also, can we claim travel toiletries?

Unless you are paid a travel allowance, you can only claim expenses that you incurred for work travel that were not reimbursed by your employer AFAIK.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Being given 30 bucks a day is shocking.

I could be wrong, but in my experience if you don't have an arrangement with your employer you are out of luck.

My employer pays between 100-200/day depending on the city/country and even then this is not enough to cover ALL expenses.

 

[burrco]

This handy table from the ATO does a good job of showing the different requirements.

Special circumstances and glossary 2011

So if you are paid a travel allowance you can claim up to the reasonable daily amount without receipts etc. It is very important to note that the payments by the employer have to be a travel allowance - the amounts should not be shown in the gross figure in the payment summary - but separately listed as a travel allowance in the relevant section of the payment summary/group certificate.

Also note from the table that overseas travel does require proof of accommodation costs even if a travel allowance is paid.