Ask The Pilot

[Major]

Pilots - how do you rate the king and Queen of Thailand effort in flying the B737 into Butan's Paro airport (notoriously tricky to land into)

I suspect the Drukair pilot hovering behing them had a lot to do with it

 

[AviatorInsight]

Pilots - how do you rate the king and Queen of Thailand effort in flying the B737 into Butan's Paro airport (notoriously tricky to land into)

The fact that he’s 72 and still flying is impressive in itself. Having never been to Paro, he’s done a better job than I could do. Although, flying a 737 in the Pilbara is pretty much the same right? (I’m joking in case that didn’t come through)

 

[jb747]

JB, what was the longest flight you piloted in the A380? Just wondering how tired you were at the end of these flights and how much more tired will the pilots flying the Project Sunrise flights likely be?

The longest, predictably, was Dallas to Sydney, which clocked in at 16:58. There were a number of others, (Sydney-Dubai) that were in the 16:45 region, though I expect they had appreciable holding. It's not just flight time that you need to consider, but duty period. Even back on the 747, I hit 20 hours a couple of times, when things had gone wrong at the departure end, or we'd had to divert.

How tired you are isn't a direct function of the flight's length. I'm sure that some of AV's domestic days leave him pretty shattered, I know that the 767 domestic operation could be more tiring than international. Early starts, no real chance to get a break. Day after day.

With regard to the ULR ops, much will depend upon the quality of the crew rest provisions. I expect that they'll go with the cheapest possible option, and that means that there's unlikely to be the sort of setup that the 380 has. No matter what is there, it's likely that on many occasions the crew (or individuals with the crew) will be arriving in an extremely tired state.

Remember, in the incident reports, there's no such thing as fatigue...it's always crew error.

That is going to interesting - I heard that Boeing was sending aircraft back to the U.S. from their China acceptance/handover centre but wasn't sure what types. I guess they would have to reconfigure the cabins for whoever takes them next.

From what I gather it's all types. Basically nothing to be accepted. And if it stays that way, there goes a very big market.

 

[jb747]

I suspect the Drukair pilot hovering behing them had a lot to do with it

If you aren't in a control seat, there's a limit to how much influence you can have.

 

[RSD]

The longest, predictably, was Dallas to Sydney, which clocked in at 16:58. There were a number of others, (Sydney-Dubai) that were in the 16:45 region, though I expect they had appreciable holding. It's not just flight time that you need to consider, but duty period. Even back on the 747, I hit 20 hours a couple of times, when things had gone wrong at the departure end, or we'd had to divert.

How tired you are isn't a direct function of the flight's length. I'm sure that some of AV's domestic days leave him pretty shattered, I know that the 767 domestic operation could be more tiring than international. Early starts, no real chance to get a break. Day after day.

With regard to the ULR ops, much will depend upon the quality of the crew rest provisions. I expect that they'll go with the cheapest possible option, and that means that there's unlikely to be the sort of setup that the 380 has. No matter what is there, it's likely that on many occasions the crew (or individuals with the crew) will be arriving in an extremely tired state.

I guess things like turbulence during rest periods would also affect the quality of rest too?

Are there many occasions where the F/O has the need to consult the captain during the captain's rest period?

 

[jb747]

I guess things like turbulence during rest periods would also affect the quality of rest too?

They certainly do. You might even need to consider the known areas of turbulence whilst writing the roster.

Are there many occasions where the F/O has the need to consult the captain during the captain's rest period?

Not really. Basically, if you need to call someone back from the crew rest, then things are happening which will probably preclude you getting to destination anyway, so the roster goes by the wayside. Any aircraft issues, you expect to be handled, though you might need to come back for the aftermath. For instance, a generator failure on the 380, I’d simply expect to be told about when the roster cycled. An engine failure, you’d expect to be called once the engine was secured and the descent started. As Captain, you felt every minor bump and niggle anyway, so you might notice without being called. I recall getting the FO out of the bunk on one occasion, when we had some flight control computer issues, and I wanted everyone on deck.

 

[RSD]

They certainly do. You might even need to consider the known areas of turbulence whilst writing the roster.

Not really. Basically, if you need to call someone back from the crew rest, then things are happening which will probably preclude you getting to destination anyway, so the roster goes by the wayside. Any aircraft issues, you expect to be handled, though you might need to come back for the aftermath. For instance, a generator failure on the 380, I’d simply expect to be told about when the roster cycled. An engine failure, you’d expect to be called once the engine was secured and the descent started. As Captain, you felt every minor bump and niggle anyway, so you might notice without being called. I recall getting the FO out of the bunk on one occasion, when we had some flight control computer issues, and I wanted everyone on deck.

Do you actually get quality sleep when resting or is it more just lying there with your eyes shut? I'm involved with a project where we will be living in and working out of an underwater habitat at 60 metres for a few weeks and something that has become apparent from other similar projects is that they need to totally redesign the sleeping quarters so that people have a greater chance of getting quality sleep - partly because snoring while pressurised to 7 atmospheres in a habitat that has an atmosphere with a very high % of helium becomes rather loud to say the least.

 

[jb747]

Sometimes. Call it 50% of the time.

 

[Quickstatus]

partly because snoring while pressurised to 7 atmospheres in a habitat that has an atmosphere with a very high % of helium becomes rather loud to say the least.

RMD sorted that out many years ago

 

[ChrisGibbs]

Did the QF165/QF166 trip this weekend BNE-ROR-BNE.... also know as the Palau Express. BY the sounds of things QF are on contract from the Australian Government to run this trip once a week to replace the Air Nauru flights that operated previously.

A couple of interesting things to note. Its just on 6:00hrs up and 5:30hrs back. Probably one of the longer 737-800 flights that QF operates. A couple of questions observations:

- there were around 50 pax on the outbound sector and 80 pax for the return.
- its the same aircraft, tech and cabin crew for both the outbound and return flights. They carry a QF engineer on the flight up and back. They get to the ROR airport a little earlier and wake the aircraft up and then they jump back onboard to come back to BNE. He also came in handy retrieving a mobile phone for one of the PAX.
- The aircraft is catered out of BNE for the outbound and inbound sectors. So it is basically snacks all round for the return journey which departs at 08:30am local time and lands in BNE at 3:15pm local time.
- What diversions / alternates would be in place for ROR. After Port Moresby there is nothing much else on the way up. Would they use a PNR instead...

Have to also call out great service from Andy Blair (Capt) and Bernadette (CSM) and the BNE based crew....

 

[AviatorInsight]

Did the QF165/QF166 trip this weekend BNE-ROR-BNE.... also know as the Palau Express. BY the sounds of things QF are on contract from the Australian Government to run this trip once a week to replace the Air Nauru flights that operated previously.

- What diversions / alternates would be in place for ROR. After Port Moresby there is nothing much else on the way up. Would they use a PNR instead...

So I just spoke to a QF mate of mine on the 737. He’s BNE based and asked him a few questions of my own as well about it. I had no idea QF did these flights.

1. The crew overnight here but get a maximum of 12hrs off there. For the same amount of flying time, they get more time off in Perth.
2. QF 737s don’t have CPDLC (datalink - an SMS like service), so they’re on HF radio for position reports and any deviations or level changes.
3. Their alternate is Saipan (PGSN). Probably explains the cap of pax on the way up vs way back. You don’t want to commit yourself to a single runway airport on an island. Always carry the alternate. I thought they would have used WAJJ or WABB instead.
4. They can actually do the entire trip non EDTO (just).

 

[RSD]

So I just spoke to a QF mate of mine on the 737. He’s BNE based and asked him a few questions of my own as well about it. I had no idea QF did these flights.

It is only a very new service - started earlier this year I think.

If 1829 metres is long enough for a 737 then PTYA is also an option.