Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

The BOLD part is what's got me. Given they wont progress on to FO on A380 directly from the SO spot, what would make somebody go for that? I mean, if they were a B767 FO, why then chose to be a back seat driver on the A380 which would then "progress" you back onto possibly a single aisle B737 to be a FO again?

The problem with the fleet at the moment is that the 767s are being retired without direct replacement. The FOs who chose to come back were extremely junior, and had taken the 767 slots knowing the risk...basically they're pretty much at the bottom of the FO seniority, and in many cases SOs are senior to them. So, if for instance 787s were to appear (!) they'd very likely be outbid for them anyway. They may not even be senior enough to get a 737 slot. That 767 experience is a valuable addition to the log book and would, for instance, allow them to apply for 777 FO seats with many airlines...and an Airbus endorsement, even as an SO, would gild that lily.

In their case the company makes an exception to the vertical promotion rules, and they can be promoted on type.

Lots of reasons for people bidding this way. Lifestyle at the bottom of the seniority list (remembering that there is no rotation) can be unremittingly lousy, so sometimes it's better to be king of the ****s, than the other way around.

 

[jb747]

Speaking of seniority, after reading Richard's book, would I be correct in assuming that you have seniority over him?

Yes.

From what I gathered from your posts is that you're at the lower end of the A380 captain ranks? If so, how come? I got the impression that most of the guys came from the A330s, then started taking people off of the B744s. If so, I would've thought that up until that point you and your fellow B744 drivers would have had seniority.

The seniority spread of Captains on the A380 is from about #3 to roughly #500. I guess there are about 120 qualified (small fleets always have relatively more..the overhead of management and training). My seniority number is roughly 200, and I think RdC is about 400...but, within the fleet, I'm about #80, and he's around #100. That puts us both in the bottom third, which is effectively the same.

Time on the fleet has no effect. If someone checked out tomorrow, with a higher seniority number than me, they would push me (and RdC) down. I don't expect any upwards movement before I retire.

 

[Tortuga]

Yes.



The seniority spread of Captains on the A380 is from about #3 to roughly #500. I guess there are about 120 qualified (small fleets always have relatively more..the overhead of management and training). My seniority number is roughly 200, and I think RdC is about 400...but, within the fleet, I'm about #80, and he's around #100. That puts us both in the bottom third, which is effectively the same.

Time on the fleet has no effect. If someone checked out tomorrow, with a higher seniority number than me, they would push me (and RdC) down. I don't expect any upwards movement before I retire.

What are the benefits to having more seniority? Say #50 vs #20 etc. Do you know who is ranked #1? I noticed quite a few Australian captains on Emirates and Qatar airways in my travels this year, do you think this might be because of the limited opportunities to rise the seniority ranks within the Australian airline industry namely Qantas? It seems to me the most highly regarded/skilled pilots are Australian and British from an industry point of view with previous experience in the air force? I don't like to generalise so correct me if I am wrong.

 

[jb747]

I drive over the westgate bridge in melbourne many mornings and often see the "heavies" making a left hand turn and they turn to fly from eastbound to northbound (ie coming in from the south end of the airport to land on the N/S runway) - they seem roughly in line with the princess freeway then "turn off" to "line up" with the airport. Quite glorious to see the 380s and 744s making a sweeping turn in the morning sun.

My perception is that there seems to be quite a variation in the "turn point" and height above ground - presuming you've done that approach what kind of height are the aircraft, and any idea how far from the WG bridge they are at the "roll out" of the turn? What restrictions are there on how early/late you can make that "turn"? Again, there seems quite a variation - some days seemingly lower and closer to the bridge, other days turn early and high. It may of course be perception rather than reality, but on an approach like this, how much "variation" is allowed? Obviously the closer to the airport the less variation, but is there a quantifiable amount or is it just to follow the localiser and/or ATC instructions?

There are a couple of different arrivals (RNAV and via aids) that take you to approximately the same spot 11 miles south of the field. They then join either the RNAV or VOR approaches, which have similar heights, but different tracks. So, there could be up to a couple of miles difference in the distance, and about a mile in the track. Heights should be pretty similar, though I expect some of the 'non locals' would tend to be towards the lower end of the altitude steps.

 

[jb747]

What are the benefits to having more seniority?

You get a roster every bid period. Virtually never do standby. Get to go to whatever places take your fancy. Always have Christmas off....etc

Do you know who is ranked #1?

Yes. I think he's about 400 years old now.

I noticed quite a few Australian captains on Emirates and Qatar airways in my travels this year, do you think this might be because of the limited opportunities to rise the seniority ranks within the Australian airline industry namely Qantas?

Lots of the Australian pilots who work in the Middle East were refugees from 1989, though I guess many of them are around retirement now. Quite a few have headed there in recent years, some permanently, whilst others are on short term contracts.

 

[albatross710]

Discussion has so far been around the senior pilot ranks. I was told last week that any young commercial pilot with >250 hours is getting a start with the airlines.

Is there are a shortage of talent entering the industry?

 

[mjt57]

You get a roster every bid period. Virtually never do standby. Get to go to whatever places take your fancy. Always have Christmas off....etc


Yes. I think he's about 400 years old now.

Sounds like his bum's araldited into that left seat...

Lots of the Australian pilots who work in the Middle East were refugees from 1989, though I guess many of them are around retirement now. Quite a few have headed there in recent years, some permanently, whilst others are on short term contracts.

Capt. Brian McCarthy was the head of the union back then. I would assume that he was not employed by the airlines once the strike was over. Any idea as to what happened to him?

As for the way seniority works in the airlines, I'd imagine that the office politics behind it all must be something to behold...

 

[Sprucegoose]

Lots of the Australian pilots who work in the Middle East were refugees from 1989, though I guess many of them are around retirement now. Quite a few have headed there in recent years, some permanently, whilst others are on short term contracts.

When I lived in the big noodle in the 90's and flew CX every week I swear every second jockey was an Aussie. All lived at Disco Bay on around $A50k mth and went boating most of the time!!

best thing that happened to them that pilots strike.

 

[jb747]

When I lived in the big noodle in the 90's and flew CX every week I swear every second jockey was an Aussie. All lived at Disco Bay on around $A50k mth and went boating most of the time!!

best thing that happened to them that pilots strike.

I dare say the CX guys wished that particular tale were true....

 

[jb747]

Discussion has so far been around the senior pilot ranks. I was told last week that any young commercial pilot with >250 hours is getting a start with the airlines.

Is there are a shortage of talent entering the industry?

That sounds like the sort of thing a flying school would tell somebody they're trying to sign up.

It's probably fair to say that many airlines are being run in such a way that they are no longer attractive to those pilots who have a choice. Something about peanuts comes to mind.

 

[jb747]

Capt. Brian McCarthy was the head of the union back then. I would assume that he was not employed by the airlines once the strike was over. Any idea as to what happened to him?

I think I heard he ended up flying overseas. Philippines comes to mind. He was head of the domestic union. I had no involvement with them.

Worth noting though, that there wasn't a strike...it was a work to rule, in which the response was a lockout followed by people serving notices at midnight.

As for the way seniority works in the airlines, I'd imagine that the office politics behind it all must be something to behold...

Think of it as a queue. In it's simplest form, that's all it is.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I expect some of the 'non locals' would tend to be towards the lower end of the altitude steps.

Why would that be the case? Is it a natural thing to be closer to the ground (within limits) due to unfamiliarity of the area, or is there something else?

 

[jb747]

Why would that be the case? Is it a natural thing to be closer to the ground (within limits) due to unfamiliarity of the area, or is there something else?

It's much easier to intercept the glidepath from below, than it is from above. Some approaches leave you a bit higher than you might otherwise like to be. Someone who is not familiar with the approach may find it more comfortable to fly towards the lower limits, whereas a pilot who does the same thing multiple times per week will have much larger range of acceptable levels. A good example is the approach from the east of Melbourne that tracks over Essendon onto a visual base for 34. My home is about 10 miles out from Essendon, right under this path. Watching the QF 747s fly it, they pass overhead at about 5-6000 feet, at idle, and generally clean or just the first stage of flap. United (just picking an example) will pass overhead quite a bit lower, and normally with a bit more flap...and a lot more noise.

 

[docjames]

Why would that be the case? Is it a natural thing to be closer to the ground (within limits) due to unfamiliarity of the area, or is there something else?

On my observations your impression would be right - SQ/EK often seem lower / closer than QF/JQ. CX seem somewhere in between.

 

[docjames]

Sorry, to follow up - "lower limits" - what are the "acceptable" variations on height - let's say at the final turn?

 

[markis10]

Sorry, to follow up - "lower limits" - what are the "acceptable" variations on height - let's say at the final turn?

Tiger and Air Asia X pilots may disagree with any possible answer

 

[jb747]

Sorry, to follow up - "lower limits" - what are the "acceptable" variations on height - let's say at the final turn?

The point where the turn left onto finals for 34 is about 10 miles from the runway. The minimum height at that point is 3000'. But, as Melbourne is 380 feet AMSL, you could be about 400 feet high, and still be exactly on the 3 degree path. More at issue is the height prior to that turn. Between position LAVER (about 6 miles NW) and the turn the lowest safety height is 3000 feet. Prior to LAVER it's 4500'. But, ATC will often give the clearance to less than 4500 prior to reaching LAVER... That's ok if radar are providing terrain clearance, but, as you're actually flying the STAR (which has it's own nominated minimum altitude) there's no guarantee of that, unless you specifically query it. There's no reason to be level prior to the turn...a descent from 4500 at LAVER to around 3000 at the turn is quite comfortable.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Ask The Pilot

Tiger and Air Asia X pilots may disagree with any possible answer

LOL markis

 

[fairbasa]

Computer resets are pretty common. They generally have no downside, and only take a couple of minutes. Obviously there are many systems than cannot be reset (in flight), and for those systems there will be more redundancy (for instance there are 6 flight control computers, any one of which can take care of the FBW). After a reset, if a problem is real, then the failure checking will almost certainly catch it again within a very short span.

Ok, I found out what it was. Not a big deal, but it's a reset that has to be done by the engineers.

Turns out you were lucky anyway...the 2 was an hour late from this, but the 10 diverted to Dubai with a sick passenger.

I was on QF10 that day. Made it a very long flight! The captain of that flight never said his name but he was very professional and kept the passengers well informed.

What happens in this situation? Do Qantas have insurance to cover such events? It must have cost them a fortune to divert, I noticed them dumping fuel on the way down into Dubai. Also, what happens with the crew fatigue? It added around 4-5 hours to the already ~12 hour flight.

 

[jb747]

What happens in this situation? Do Qantas have insurance to cover such events?

No insurance company would cover something like that. It's a cost that the airline has to bear. I suspect some airlines are more inclined to passenger medical diversions than others....

It must have cost them a fortune to divert, I noticed them dumping fuel on the way down into Dubai. Also, what happens with the crew fatigue? It added around 4-5 hours to the already ~12 hour flight.

Off the top of my head, I'd reckon on a minimum direct cost of about $50,000. Crew fatigue could well become an issue on some sectors, as could flight time limitations. Not normally limiting on that particular sector, but if it added 5 hours overall, then the crew would be in their last hour of available duty time. Of course, if your flight had a delay at the start (i.e. the snow in London at the moment) it would get very messy.

'Heavy' crews (in our case with two SOs) generally have a fair bit of flexibility with regard to hours, but a two or three man crew can hit limits with only a small delay.