Article: Why Airlines Love European Business Class

[AFF Editor]

Why Airlines Love European Business Class is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/airlines-love-european-business-class/

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Cheap cheap of course.
But they won't admit it.
To them it's still J, but to us, it's more premY on Au dom flights.
2 across in J is much better than 3 in European "J" with the middle seat blocked off.
Of course they will charge full fare J for the sub par European "J".

 

[Pushka]

We've flown in these a few times now, all through Qantas rewards points where it is so easy to book an intercon flight and have multiple time choices. They are perfectly adequate for the short flights, the food has generally been excellent as has the service. And reasonably priced.

 

[RooFlyer]

Like you @AFF Editor , I don't hate (or, rather, mind) Eurobusiness, for flights up to 2 hours. I still recall one of my best non Australian short haul flights was on LH in Eurobusiness. Best in-air breakfast ever, fantastic service etc etc. Of course, as you say, Turkish does business properly. Second best brekkie outside Australia was on a TK A320.

 

[SYD]

I’ve flown plenty of AY Euro Biz. Not so bad starting your return trip home to Oz and knowing you’re connecting to widebodies the rest of the way but a bit of a let down changing to one on the inbound.

I’ve not had a chance to do it, but the AY A350 HEL-LHR usually works timing wise for those inbound connections from Asia.

Meanwhile, I just flew HKT-SIN with SQ B737MAX. The Biz cabin (unfortunately I was seated a few rows behind) was the full regional Biz seats 2:2/1:1/2:2 config for 1.5 hrs flying time!

 

[jase05]

Yeah, I don’t hate them for an hour or two but anything longer than that is a bit of a pain and I’d try to avoid if possible. Some of the meals have been top notch on flights we have been on but I’ve also had some pretty ordinary ones too ( BA and LH I’m looking at you!)

 

[esseeeayeenn]

The seats are ordinary but as well as the catering, the priority service on the ground makes it worthwhile.
The Green Lanes at some European terminals are like being in a world apart.

 

[evanb]

I guess it's somewhat about expectations. If you are not familiar with it it can really be a surprise to rock up on your connection after a long haul and see the middle seat blocked and realise this is "business" class if you're used to short haul business in other regions.

It also depends on one's preferences. What do you see as being more important, the soft product or the hard product? If you're someone who cares more for the hard product it's a big disappointment, however if you care more for the soft product, a TK A320 business is still great even if it's not that different to economy in terms of the hard product.

Post automatically merged: Nov 29, 2023

I’ve flown plenty of AY Euro Biz. Not so bad starting your return trip home to Oz and knowing you’re connecting to widebodies the rest of the way but a bit of a let down changing to one on the inbound.

I’ve not had a chance to do it, but the AY A350 HEL-LHR usually works timing wise for those inbound connections from Asia.

Meanwhile, I just flew HKT-SIN with SQ B737MAX. The Biz cabin (unfortunately I was seated a few rows behind) was the full regional Biz seats 2:2/1:1/2:2 config for 1.5 hrs flying time!

The lie flat I had on the SQ MAX from SIN to PNH was probably better than the weird angled one SQ have on the long haul A350s and A380s! It's messed up SQ for me

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well… there’s nothing ‘flash’ about US and Aussie business class at 2+2 and 37 inch pitch. It’s not really business but premium economy. Carriers elsewhere have seat pitches up to 50 inches for 2+2 seating… more like a business product in therms of space.

Being pretty tall I find eurobusiness gives me much more leg room and space to spread out than US/AU business.

As others have said, catering is usually pretty good! BA, LH, LX, AF all have really good catering (most of the time!).

Fares in BA’s club cabin for shorthauls can be as little as AUD250… lounge access and a swag of status credits included. What’s not to like!?

 

[evanb]

Well… there’s nothing ‘flash’ about US and Aussie business class at 2+2 and 37 inch pitch. It’s not really business but premium economy. Carriers elsewhere have seat pitches up to 50 inches for 2+2 seating… more like a business product in therms of space.

Being pretty tall I find eurobusiness gives me much more leg room and space to spread out than US/AU business.

As others have said, catering is usually pretty good! BA, LH, LX, AF all have really good catering (most of the time!).

Fares in BA’s club cabin for shorthauls can be as little as AUD250… lounge access and a swag of status credits included. What’s not to like!?

Agree, nothing flash. But a QF 737 with 2x2, 37x22 is rather flash compared to BA's 3x3 with blocked middle seat at 30x17. 10 million kms flown and I can't say I've ever explicitly purchased a stand alone short haul business (different in medium and long haul where I need to work or sleep). I can't bring myself to pay AUD 250 for a BA 3x3 with blocked middle at 30x17 when easyJet offer me 3x3 economy with one inch less pitch for less than AUD 100. cough, I'll pay the extra 8 to be guaranteed the aisle. I also can't say that I've ever considered the quality of food when making a choice on a two hour flight.

I think what the European carriers understand is that people don't apply a strong value proposition to short haul business class. Few will pay up for standalone short haul business (and they'll happily flog them off). Somewhat different when it's the connecting flight to a long haul itinerary. And since all the competitions have much the same hard product, there isn't much of a race to the top.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Agree, nothing flash. But a QF 737 with 2x2, 37x22 is rather flash compared to BA's 3x3 with blocked middle seat at 30x17. 10 million kms flown and I can't say I've ever explicitly purchased a stand alone short haul business (different in medium and long haul where I need to work or sleep). I can't bring myself to pay AUD 250 for a BA 3x3 with blocked middle at 30x17 when easyJet offer me 3x3 economy with one inch less pitch for less than AUD 100. cough, I'll pay the extra 8 to be guaranteed the aisle. I also can't say that I've ever considered the quality of food when making a choice on a two hour flight.

I think what the European carriers understand is that people don't apply a strong value proposition to short haul business class. Few will pay up for standalone short haul business (and they'll happily flog them off). Somewhat different when it's the connecting flight to a long haul itinerary. And since all the competitions have much the same hard product, there isn't much of a race to the top.

I get your point, but the blocked middle seat gives me much more room to get comfortable… and move my legs around. A fixed 2-2 seat feels cramped.

Compare standard erobusiness to SAS’ economy plus and you’ll really appreciate the blocked middle! And while BA is 2-2 on their E jets, LH group all block the second seat entirely, giving you lots of space. Meaning no worried about hand baggage on the small regionals.

 

[dk4]

Let's not forget that Virgin Blue had blocked middle seats for a while, also using a tray to cover the middle seat (plus arm rests that moved in slightly as well) - marketed as premium economy.

source: Virgin Blue Upgrades Premium Economy - Spice News

Also see trip report here QF Business vs DJ Premium - TWO TAILS A Domestic Top Class Odyssey (QF Business & DJ Premium w/ PICS) - FlyerTalk Forums

 

[RooFlyer]

if you care more for the soft product, a TK A320 business is still great even if it's not that different to economy in terms of the hard product.

Can you elaborate on this please? I’ve flown TK business on small regional routws( A320 family) more than a few times most recently a few months ago. It was 2-2 seating (with very good catering) and economy was the usual 3-3.

 

[Mattg]

I’ve flown plenty of AY Euro Biz. Not so bad starting your return trip home to Oz and knowing you’re connecting to widebodies the rest of the way but a bit of a let down changing to one on the inbound.

I’ve not had a chance to do it, but the AY A350 HEL-LHR usually works timing wise for those inbound connections from Asia.

I flew Finnair a few weeks ago, HEL-AMS, and specifically chose the one flight that week that was supposed to be operated by an A350. Was really looking forward to it - unfortunately, there was a last-minute aircraft change to an A321. Was a bit of a let-down, but not much that you can do. At least the fare I paid was the same as it would have been if I'd originally booked any of the other HEL-AMS flights scheduled as narrow-bodies.

 

[evanb]

Can you elaborate on this please? I’ve flown TK business on small regional routws( A320 family) more than a few times most recently a few months ago. It was 2-2 seating (with very good catering) and economy was the usual 3-3.

Soft product = food, service, ammenities, etc
Hard product = seats, entertainment system, wifi, etc

TK's hard product is pretty varied:

• Long haul widebodies (B77W, A350, B787, A333, A332 (5x)): lie flat business class with "suites" on the A350s and B787s, but the dreaded middle seat on older product on the B77W
• Medium haul widebodies (A333, A332): not all the A330s have the lie flat, with a smaller subfleet of A333s (7x) having a regional product with recliners (similar to the 2x2 on a B738 or A320) and some A332s (6x) having old angled flat. These are typically used on flights < 8 hours.
• Older A320 series: A319s Y only; A320s CY flex, i.e. eurobusiness 3x3 with blocked middle when used as business; A321s 13x with CY flex, remaining +-52 with 2x2 recliners
• New A320 series: A321neo all with 2x2 recliners with modern business seat
• Older B737 series: B738 and B739s all with 2x2, several 3x3 now removed
• Newer B737 seriesL B738max and B739max with same new 2x2 with as A321neos

So about 31 older A320 series still with 3x3 business still active and fly some of the shorter routes into Europe. It can be the luck of the draw though, I had one of the 3x3 A320s two weeks back on a 90 minute flight, but looking its history it had done quite a few 3.5 hour legs into Europe that week. Same for the widebodies. A lot of the widebodies do sectors into Europe, so you can pick up a lie flat even, but one day it's a A350, the next day it's a B738. They are very nimble in their capacity management to Europe based on connecting flows and cargo.

They still have the same catering though no matter the hard product since catering is linked to flight time on TK, not aircraft (they have larger than typical galleys for this shorthaul aircraft - this has been a problem for TK with a lot of used aircraft that they have picked up since they have an unusually big catering load). FWIW, none of the older A320 and B737 series have wifi, while the neos and maxs do.

 

[evanb]

They still have the same catering though no matter the hard product since catering is linked to flight time on TK, not aircraft (they have larger than typical galleys for this shorthaul aircraft - this has been a problem for TK with a lot of used aircraft that they have picked up since they have an unusually big catering load).

Btw, this is likely a planning concern for them on potential non-stop Australian flights, particularly why they are looking at one-stop flights instead. They have a somewhat dens cabin on the A359 and B789 (more dense than QF on the B789, and even more dense than DL on the A359), but their catering load is just so big that they would find it impossible to load the catering for 17 hours even if they could get the payload right (which they couldn't without blocking a huge number of seats)!

Post automatically merged: Nov 30, 2023

I flew Finnair a few weeks ago, HEL-AMS, and specifically chose the one flight that week that was supposed to be operated by an A350. Was really looking forward to it - unfortunately, there was a last-minute aircraft change to an A321. Was a bit of a let-down, but not much that you can do. At least the fare I paid was the same as it would have been if I'd originally booked any of the other HEL-AMS flights scheduled as narrow-bodies.

I was literally looking at AY to get to LHR in January and noticed the A350 scheduled on the HEL-LHR leg. What put be off was the codeshare with JQ on MEL-SIN rather than QF. JQ J hidden behind an AY code :-(

 

[dajop]

One thing about Eurobusiness, the premiums sometimes aren't that significant. I had a case last year travelling BRU-LHR/LHR-FRA (two day stopover) where taking business class on LHR-FRA instead of economy was only $20 more (I did have luggage so needed luggage inclusive fare, differential would have been greater with HLO).

 

[justinbrett]

One thing about Eurobusiness, the premiums sometimes aren't that significant. I had a case last year travelling BRU-LHR/LHR-FRA (two day stopover) where taking business class on LHR-FRA instead of economy was only $20 more (I did have luggage so needed luggage inclusive fare, differential would have been greater with HLO).

Same for a lot of US routes (not trans con obviously). I've even seen F fares lower than Y (though I have also seen that once or twice on QF when the Y seats have nearly sold out).

 

[anyonebutqantas]

The main upside of Eurobusiness is not having to worry about finding overhead cabin space for your luggage.

 

[shmoozy1]

Why Airlines Love European Business Class is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/airlines-love-european-business-class/

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

I absolutely despise European "business" class. A junk product if ever there was one. Very tight on legroom (just like in Y) and with the exception of the guaranteed empty middle seat the service levels (recent 4.5 hour flight on LH) are pathetic to non existent. Even UA's Economy Plus seat/service offering is superior which is a remarkable indictment on just how rubbish the EU product is. 0 IFE, 0 Wifi. Sure offer people the choice to pay extra for an empty middle seat or to sit closer to the front but other than that I would save my $ for anything else you might want. At least Swiss still offers a proper business class intra Europe on some flights but for me I would avoid any other airline offering this supposed advantage