Article: Should Airlines Keep Lounges Open for Delayed Flights?

[Beano]

If the lounges advertise opening until their last flight then that is a contract and can be challenged for closing earlier. Perhaps the AFFF should be altered?

 

[foften]

I suspect it depends on if the staff want to work the overtime; that should be the most important consideration. I suspect this lounge issue doesn’t come up in curfew ridden Sydney airport; once curfew kicks in they boot you out of the terminal and into the night.

 

[AuSammy]

At the very least the airlines should stick as a minimum to what they advertise, anything extra is a bonus. If it says until last departure thats what I expect. If it says until the flight is ready for boarding then thats what I expect.

Shonky calling you to the gate when there is no plane yet or just unilaterally closing is not on.

 

[Aeryn]

If they know in advance their own flights are going to be delayed they can call in stand-by staff for an extra shift or pay overtime to keep lounge open until boarding is called - even if hot food service wraps up at the usual time.

WCMO is airports like OOL where the lounge only opens 1 hour before a flight and is opening closing every couple of hours or so in the middle of the day. If you have a longer connection (i once had 4 hours to kill) it can be a pain being let in to lounge for an hour, evicted to the terminal, let back in an hour later etc rinse and repeat. The cost of staying one that hour in between cant be that high.

 

[quick_dry]

If the lounge access is a part of a business ticket, and the lounge ias advertised as open till last departure then doesn't that form part of the contract if they're all part of the same business? Or is this where we we'll actually find that like Velocity being separate to Virgin, the lounge operation business is not actually part of VA or QF

 

[themaiz]

Thanks Matt: good thoughts.

But in terms of practical ways its very difficult especially within Australia as we have some strict labour laws. If a staff needs to go home at this hour, they are within all their right to do so.

There might be some IR implications, but there are also ways to handle that and staffing isn't my problem to solve. My view is that I pay the business to not be in a situation where staff coverage hasn't been a consideration.

As the customer: my job is to consume the product, and the suppliers job is to deliver the contract and maybe keep me delighted. Then I can do my other job as a customer, which is provide return business.

Thoughts:

• If a flight is delayed or impacted, that's precisely when I need the lounge. It's like contributory insurance: I'm happy to pay a premium to have support available.
• Flight delays, cancellations and passenger management comes with the territory. Anyone rostered on the closing shift might reasonably be given an expectation that overtime will be needed at times, and that should be factored into the employment agreement
• I'm pretty appalled that lounge staff might usher the providers of their employment (customers) out of the lounge on false pretences. "We choose to close" is not the same as "your flight is ready".
• In mainland cap cities there are two QF lounges, and I've seen in SYD and BNE when QF consolidates all guests into the business lounge at times of low demand or other challenges. Fully in favour of that.

 

[Jamie R]

I get the inconvenience to the traveller. What is unacceptable is the carry on I have witnessed from lounge guests when told the lounge is closing before the delayed flight leaves. I once had to tell one of the staff members (who was almost in tears from the verbal spray she'd received advising of closure) to just ask the airport police to do a walk through before closing - in case several of the more belligerent guests decided to have more of a go at her. It worked - everyone left quietly. If the staff and local regulations let them stay open, then great, however I don't see it as something to get too fussed over.

 

[elanshin]

Thanks Matt: good thoughts.



There might be some IR implications, but there are also ways to handle that and staffing isn't my problem to solve. My view is that I pay the business to not be in a situation where staff coverage hasn't been a consideration.

As the customer: my job is to consume the product, and the suppliers job is to deliver the contract and maybe keep me delighted. Then I can do my other job as a customer, which is provide return business.

Thoughts:

• If a flight is delayed or impacted, that's precisely when I need the lounge. It's like contributory insurance: I'm happy to pay a premium to have support available.
• Flight delays, cancellations and passenger management comes with the territory. Anyone rostered on the closing shift might reasonably be given an expectation that overtime will be needed at times, and that should be factored into the employment agreement
• I'm pretty appalled that lounge staff might usher the providers of their employment (customers) out of the lounge on false pretences. "We choose to close" is not the same as "your flight is ready".
• In mainland cap cities there are two QF lounges, and I've seen in SYD and BNE when QF consolidates all guests into the business lounge at times of low demand or other challenges. Fully in favour of that.

Sure, but let me flip it on the other side. If you are the lounge worker, why are you sticking around longer than necessary?

What I'm inferring here is that the "for the company to solve" is actually incredibly difficult in this country. Even if you offer massive incentives, the worker can still say "No I'm going home". If you hire a bunch of people that will "stick around for the team" then you eventually might end up in a HR headline about abusing your workers.

For the end of day shifts, you're already running fewer people than normal, if a delay is for unknown length do you ask your worker to stay until an unknown time? Imagine if your boss asked you to stay for an unknown amount of extra hours to work. Late night transport options are already limiting. There's a whole bunch of exceptionally hard to solve things than just saying "the company can figure it out" especially with our unions and labour laws.

But just to be clear, in principle I agree with you that the lounge should be open. Just that it's a lot harder in this country to do that.

 

[clifford]

I was in the CX HKG "The Wing" First Class Lounge earlier this year in the early hours of the morning, expecting to get kicked out at the posted closing time of 02:30.

However, there was a delay to the CX flight to New York, so they kept the lounge open until that flight was boarding, which happened to be around 3:30 am. I was impressed, and happy that I would only have to wait outside for around an hour, until the lounge reopened at 5 am. My flight was departing at 9 am.

 

[trooper]

It was a QF flight from HKG (IIRC) for me too. In fact several Flyertalkers/AFFers were on the same flight to SYD. The Lounge stayed open - and the barman - who was VERY good BTW - was completely unfazed it seems about the extension of his shift due to the delay.....I was very impressed... mind you.. after the excellent Moscow Mules he was making I was ALSO exceedingly relaxed...

 

[Thomasa]

Should Airlines Keep Lounges Open for Delayed Flights? is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Should Airlines Keep Lounges Open for Delayed Flights?

Airlines have a habit of closing their lounges before delayed flights have actually started boarding. Is this reasonable or should paying customers who've already been inconvenienced by a flight delay expect more?

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

They most definitely should. "Last scheduled flight' means just that. It is the contract between the airline and paying customer, just as adhering to published opening hours is a contract.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:42 PM

They most definitely should. "Last scheduled flight' means just that. It is the contract between the airline and paying customer, just as adhering to published opening hours is a contract.

 

[Scarlett]

Noting how most companies only give employees the bare minimum entitlement, or have outsourced as much of their operation to the lowest bidder, I can see why staff would just close up at the end of their shift. More so if they’re catching the last train/bus of the day or night…
I also can’t imagine they have additional staff on standby to come in and keep the lounge open.

So, whilst the answer to the question posed in the thread title is a definite YES, I can see why that may not happen.

 

[Bolt]

I took a Jetstar flight out of Brisbane international, and found that just 10 minutes after I arrived, they were going to close the lounge for 3 hours. A bit of a screw you to Jetstar Business passengers and OneWorld members. Frustrating, but then I realized that the lounge food was disgusting to the point it was inedible anyway, and I'd be better off at the Coffee Club.

 

[Bolt]

I get the inconvenience to the traveller. What is unacceptable is the carry on I have witnessed from lounge guests

Yes! I cant believe how big some of their baggage is!

 

[themaiz]

Sure, but let me flip it on the other side. If you are the lounge worker, why are you sticking around longer than necessary?

Um... because it's your job, and someone has negotiated "stay back if needed and we'll compensate you accordingly, as agreed" into your contract?

I'd appreciate input from an informed IR negotiator here, because I feel like what I'm seeing is not a solution to the problem but a series of unfounded and unsupported "but you can't expect them to do that". Yes, under the right circumstances, in which everyone wins, of course you can expect them to do that.

I'm sure everyone here has watched live sport on TV. That's the product. Behind what you see is a tough, demanding industry which takes no prisoners for those of us who work within it.

What would be your reaction if your picture went black at the split second of the scheduled end time of a match, regardless of what was happening on the field? Like... does nobody expect time-on, golden point, kick-offs, or 10-11 in the last set to be a thing? Of course they do. And the broadcast industry plans accordingly because (using a gerund that I toned down a heap) annoying a customer is not what you do if you want them to come back.

 

[moa999]

More so if they’re catching the last train/bus of the day or night…

Transport considerations for relatively lowly paid workers is an issue, I doubt many park at the airport.

And with some of the attitudes displayed here, you can just see why they might put up boarding in the lounges only for a problem suddenly to appear once the lounge is closed.

 

[fairhsa]

I am a Cathay Diamond member. I was on the last flight to Manila from HKG a few months back - we got on the plane and then were told Manila airport had closed for the night and we could not take off. The lounge was about to close, but instead of closing, Cathay kept BOTH the FIRST and Business Class lounges open for us to use until we finally got to board about 4am the following day. In the Pier (First) there were TWO of us. I assume more in the Biz lounge. They should have got a medal for that. I really appreciated it.

 

[flyingfan]

Great points brought up on this thread. It's not just a simple "Yeah bloomin' oath they definitely should." Of course I want lounge access if my flight's delayed - to be kicked out is just salt in the wound.

I kind of agree with the point it's the airline's problem to get their staff to stay back, but you can bet your bottom dollar they'll pass on every cent of that cost. Dunno how many lounges/cities/flights are susceptible to delays and thus needing 'insurance' in case?

Given food courts would also be closed, handing out vouchers would be useless. Even giving out cash would lead to accusations of unfairness from those without lounge access.

 

[badseed]

All of the IR issues are eminently solvable, if the business is actually interested in doing so (which tells me that neither QF or VA particularly care).

I have mediated far more complex overtime situations and quite often workers don’t actually mind the overtime, but it’s solving the managerial approval and transportation issues that makes or breaks it. Workers hate having to chase up their employer to pay their overtime and also hate being stuck at the airport after the last train or bus has gone.

Need to have someone there on hand to auto-approve overtime and provide cabcharge/uber vouchers, and also make sure that the late roster is not filled with people who have children/caring responsibilities.

 

[Matt_01]

I will just post the famous words from @JessicaTam

Post in thread 'KUL-SIN lounge crawl 9 June 2019'

Jun 9, 2019

And the trip home begins ...



Flying Nancy Bird out of SIN - what could possibly go wrong!

• JessicaTam

• 
• 
• 

A few posts later, followed up by

Post in thread 'KUL-SIN lounge crawl 9 June 2019'

Jun 10, 2019

Back to the lounge ...

• JessicaTam

• 
• 

Of course the lounges should remain open. I was on that flight as were quite a few other Affers.