Article: Qantas’ First A321XLRs Won’t Have Lie-Flat Business Seats

[kangarooflyer88]

Are lie flats common on single aisle planes?

Common? No I wouldn't say so. American has it on their A321T aircraft operating a number of domestic routes, and recently I flew TAP Air Portugal from to YYZ on their A321XLR and it also had lie flat seats.

The real question no one is asking should be asking is whether you would really want lie flat seats on a narrow body? In the case of my TAP flight it was a 2-2 configuration with alternate rows being 1-1 (i.e. throne seats). The issue with this layout is that it can get cramped with the seats being too narrow IMHO to be considered lie-flat.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Seat0B]

Simple solution would be to take meal orders for J pax prior to take-off. That would massively speed up the time it takes to get food and drinks out.

This happened recently for me on a SYD-BNE flight. They came around before take off and asked if we would be dining, and then gave us options. We ordered, and that was delivered very shortly after the seatbelt sign was extinguished. Very efficient.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Are lie flats common on single aisle planes?

They are not ‘uncommon’. Singapore Airlines, FlyDubai, Jetblue (Mint), UA’s upcoming fleet of XLRs, AA 321Ts, and several others. I have flown AA’s F and SQ’s J… both very nice. The SQ was at the bulkhead, so that may have added some extra room. But at 6’3 I had no issues on either seat.

 

[OZDUCK]

I have flown Qatar's A 302 (Doh! A320) with lie flats and as another 6'3" person - and wide with it - found them perfectly comfortable. To my mind much better than a SQ Regional J Seat in a B787.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If Qantas equips some of its A321-XLR fleet in that config, that will be fine for flights to relatively close Asian ports. But the aircraft that are doing only Australian domestic and trans-Tasman flights don't need flat beds - it makes no business sense.

Respectfully disagree here. Even something short like SYD > MEL could benefit from a lie-flat bed. Especially with an attentive flight attendant you could have a meal and a 30 minute nap on a route like that. Now that's what I call value!

MNL and CGK is notorious for having very low J demand. J is often discounted heavily and easy award availability. Qantas can easily get away with non-flat beds in these routes.

Respectfully disagree here. MNL happens to be a great origin point if you want cheap J fares to Europe.

MEL-PER is slightly shorter than ORD-LAX (and with lower population bases) which doesn’t see lie flat and SYD-PER closer to ATL-LAX which also doesn’t routinely see lie flats either IIRC.

The other big thing is the US has something called time zones meaning if you are flying from New York to LA you're crossing 3 time zones. They also have something called red-eye flights where flight depart as late as midnight meaning you might actually want to get a good night's sleep.

They are not ‘uncommon’. Singapore Airlines, FlyDubai, Jetblue (Mint), UA’s upcoming fleet of XLRs, AA 321Ts, and several others. I have flown AA’s F and SQ’s J… both very nice. The SQ was at the bulkhead, so that may have added some extra room. But at 6’3 I had no issues on either seat.

You are right that they are being used by some airlines. But certainly not on most routes. For instance, JetBlue's business class is lie flat for some aircraft. Even American, a good chunk of their fleet is domestic business style.

What I cannot understand is how these airlines can manage to squeeze in 4 J lie flat seats on a narrow body like the A320 which might I add is the number of lie flats you'll find in J on a wide-body like the A330 with QF, 787 with UA or 777 with AC. Again, sacrifices need to be made, namely in the width of the seat which after some time does hurt the butt.

I have flown Qatar's A 302 with lie flats and as another 6'3" person - and wide with it - found them perfectly comfortable. To my mind much better than a SQ Regional J Seat in a B787.

Yes but was it a 2-2 configuration or a 1-1 configuration? Huge difference between the two on a narrow-body!

 

[OZDUCK]

Respectfully disagree here. Even something short like SYD > MEL could benefit from a lie-flat bed. Especially with an attentive flight attendant you could have a meal and a 30 minute nap on a route like that. Now that's what I call value!


Respectfully disagree here. MNL happens to be a great origin point if you want cheap J fares to Europe.

The other big thing is the US has something called time zones meaning if you are flying from New York to LA you're crossing 3 time zones. They also have something called red-eye flights where flight depart as late as midnight meaning you might actually want to get a good night's sleep.

You are right that they are being used by some airlines. But certainly not on most routes. For instance, JetBlue's business class is lie flat for some aircraft. Even American, a good chunk of their fleet is domestic business style.

What I cannot understand is how these airlines can manage to squeeze in 4 J lie flat seats on a narrow body like the A320 which might I add is the number of lie flats you'll find in J on a wide-body like the A330 with QF, 787 with UA or 777 with AC. Again, sacrifices need to be made, namely in the width of the seat which after some time does hurt the butt.

Yes but was it a 2-2 configuration or a 1-1 configuration? Huge difference between the two on a narrow-body!

It was 2 - 2 Doha to Helsinki.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Respectfully disagree here. Even something short like SYD > MEL could benefit from a lie-flat bed. Especially with an attentive flight attendant you could have a meal and a 30 minute nap on a route like that. Now that's what I call value!


Respectfully disagree here. MNL happens to be a great origin point if you want cheap J fares to Europe.

The other big thing is the US has something called time zones meaning if you are flying from New York to LA you're crossing 3 time zones. They also have something called red-eye flights where flight depart as late as midnight meaning you might actually want to get a good night's sleep.

You are right that they are being used by some airlines. But certainly not on most routes. For instance, JetBlue's business class is lie flat for some aircraft. Even American, a good chunk of their fleet is domestic business style.

What I cannot understand is how these airlines can manage to squeeze in 4 J lie flat seats on a narrow body like the A320 which might I add is the number of lie flats you'll find in J on a wide-body like the A330 with QF, 787 with UA or 777 with AC. Again, sacrifices need to be made, namely in the width of the seat which after some time does hurt the butt.

Yes but was it a 2-2 configuration or a 1-1 configuration? Huge difference between the two on a narrow-body!

2-2 on an a320 gives you 27 inches available width per seat, give or take an inch or two. take off some for the centre console and you still have a fairly wide seat. On a 737 is about an inch and a half less per seat.

If the seats are going to be full forward the staggered 2-2 1-1 like SQ and others is a good option. Although maybe the throne seats suffer from narrow footwells.

 

[moa999]

Respectfully disagree here. Even something short like SYD > MEL could benefit from a lie-flat bed.

And prices would go up even more.
Remember QF is planning a 20J 180Y layout.

JetBlue is 22 Mint 114 Y in the LR layout and 18/144 in S layout.

I've got no doubt that in a future version of this aircraft QF will have lie-flat beds for Asian routes, but the initial set will be domestic only and replacing the first 737s delivered in 2002.

 

[dajop]

Respectfully disagree here. Even something short like SYD > MEL could benefit from a lie-flat bed.

Who needs a lie-flat bed on a flight that's usually about 50-55 mins between take off and seats upright for landing?

They also have something called red-eye flights where flight depart as late as midnight meaning you might actually want to get a good night's sleep.

Umm, that's not a unique phenomenon to the US. Plenty of red-eye's out of PER and DRW. Even out of MEL to NZ.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Who needs a lie-flat bed on a flight that's usually about 50-55 mins between take off and seats upright for landing?

Me! A quick meal service means I get a 30 minute nap easily. Maybe to you 30 minutes doesn't sound like a lot but for me it's helpful.

Umm, that's not a unique phenomenon to the US. Plenty of red-eye's out of PER and DRW. Even out of MEL to NZ.

Those are the exceptions. The US has way more airports that don't have curfews.

 

[dajop]

Me! A quick meal service means I get a 30 minute nap easily. Maybe to you 30 minutes doesn't sound like a lot but for me it's helpful.

If I had the capability to be able to grab a 30 minute nap on a 60 minute flight, it would make no difference whether I had a lie flat bed or not. In the rare instance that I could grab a nap, i.e. if I was really tired - I would grab those zzz's even in a cradle seat, heck even in economy.

Those are the exceptions. The US has way more airports that don't have curfews.

They are not exceptions, and has nought to do with curfews. Simply a function of geography and economics.

PER-MEL/SYD/BNE/OOL/CNS and DRW-MEL/SYD/BNE are the markets big enough to sustain overnight services and the distance/time difference for them to make sense, and they help with fleet utilisation. But there's really nowhere domestically you could practically/economically do a red-eye from the curfewed airports of SYD and ADL (although granted you could do NZ flights as red-eyes, like the ones out of MEL).

Arguably if SYD didn't have a curfew, a SYD-DRW redeye could theoretically be possible, but it is already possible out of the curfewless MEL, and they don't do that. The problem is that it would remove a plane from morning service on the golden triangle, in contrast to the east bound red-eyes which just use planes that would probably sitting on the ground overnight anyway.

 

[elanshin]

Me! A quick meal service means I get a 30 minute nap easily. Maybe to you 30 minutes doesn't sound like a lot but for me it's helpful

Honestly if i was tired enough to nap on the syd mel flight, i skip everything go to sleep taxing and wake up on impact of landing. I'd rather sleep 1.5hours sitting up than 20-30mins flat.

Also I tries this out once in the a330, it felt more gimmicky than actually useful sleep since you'd get disturbed pretty quickly. I concluded i felt better not disturbed napping in Y sitting up the whole trip than lying flat in J for SYD > MEL.