Are some crew members unfit for duty?

[nlagalle]

nlagalle, perhaps one reason so many 'Gen Ys' stay for such little time is that many companies do not encourage employees to stay long term.

'They've' had their go' - that's a statement of fact if an individual has been working for the same entity (company or government department) for 45 years!

I disagree, it's a common theme that they have no sense of loyalty to a company and keep hopping around..

And what's wrong with staying at one company for so long? I've been at the same company for 20 years and have no desire to leave yet. Why should I leave after 45 years?

 

[ftm]

I am more concerned with older - particularly female - flight attendants who would struggle to lift the emergency exit doors. .

All the FA needs to do to open most doors is lift the handle from Horizontal to Vertical. The door automation then takes over and does the rest. No heavy lifting necessary.

 

[V-332]

All the FA needs to do to open most doors is lift the handle from Horizontal to Vertical. The door automation then takes over and does the rest. No heavy lifting necessary.

While many aircraft have a power assist to help open the door in an emergency, the assist will only be activated if the door is armed. Crew are still required to demonstrate they are able to open the door manually incase the assist fails or the door has been disarmed for whatever reason.

The 737 which would have to be the most popular ac with airlines in both the US and AU has no assist and requires a fair amount of effort to open normally to a fully opened position let alone when the door is armed.

 

[harvyk]

I disagree, it's a common theme that they have no sense of loyalty to a company and keep hopping around..

And what's wrong with staying at one company for so long? I've been at the same company for 20 years and have no desire to leave yet. Why should I leave after 45 years?

Actually in this day and age with a large percentage of companies only offering short to medium term contracts, sometimes job hopping is what a person needs to do to keep food on the table.

Furthermore, IME very few companies promote from within these days. Myself and most of my friends climb the ladder by looking to external opportunities.

Unlike my Dad who has had 3 jobs in his life, with his current job been over 25 years (different roles, but always within the same org), I'm up to my 7th (not including the 3 years I worked for myself), and yet I'm only in my early 30's. Do I think that's a lot? Not really, in that time I've taken a redundancy and had 3 jobs which where short term contacts (3 months a piece, that said I spent several years on 3 month contract after 3 month contract and the money allowed me to buy a house, so I can't complain), so one could argue that my previous companies have shown me loyalty, so I am hardly about to do the same the other way.

All that said, I am in my current gig the longest I've ever been in a position (a little over 2.5 years) and since my goals and my companies goals are presently aligned I see no reason to change jobs again.

Now say what you want of Gen Y, but assuming that I had stayed in my first role for the last 12 years, (assuming I hadn't gotten the redundancy), based on wage policies the company had at the time I would be earning half what I am now (and I would probably know a quarter of what I know now as well, and I probably wouldn't have done anywhere near as much traveling). Seriously who can blame me for taking opportunities when they arise?

So look, say what you like about Gen Y's willingness to go out and find opportunity and take risks, personally I wear that as a badge of distinction on my sleeve that we're not willing to simply take cough (but then complain about it into our beers at the end of the day) from those higher up, and that since society wants to hand us lemons, we're willing to make lemonade with them.

 

[Tristanm]

I disagree, it's a common theme that they have no sense of loyalty to a company and keep hopping around..

And what's wrong with staying at one company for so long? I've been at the same company for 20 years and have no desire to leave yet. Why should I leave after 45 years?

Loyalty only works if it's two ways. Maybe you're lucky to be working for a company where they continue to provide you with reasonable remuneration and conditions comparable to your market value over the long term. I don't think this is the norm however.

 

[nlagalle]

Actually in this day and age with a large percentage of companies only offering short to medium term contracts, sometimes job hopping is what a person needs to do to keep food on the table.

Furthermore, IME very few companies promote from within these days. Myself and most of my friends climb the ladder by looking to external opportunities.

Of course that is dependent on the type of work you do. some job types by their nature are only short term, but many still are longer term. depending no the field you are in, could determine your perceived view.

Unlike my Dad who has had 3 jobs in his life, with his current job been over 25 years (different roles, but always within the same org), I'm up to my 7th (not including the 3 years I worked for myself), and yet I'm only in my early 30's. Do I think that's a lot? Not really, in that time I've taken a redundancy and had 3 jobs which where short term contacts (3 months a piece, that said I spent several years on 3 month contract after 3 month contract and the money allowed me to buy a house, so I can't complain), so one could argue that my previous companies have shown me loyalty, so I am hardly about to do the same the other way.

All that said, I am in my current gig the longest I've ever been in a position (a little over 2.5 years) and since my goals and my companies goals are presently aligned I see no reason to change jobs again.

Now say what you want of Gen Y, but assuming that I had stayed in my first role for the last 12 years, (assuming I hadn't gotten the redundancy), based on wage policies the company had at the time I would be earning half what I am now (and I would probably know a quarter of what I know now as well, and I probably wouldn't have done anywhere near as much traveling). Seriously who can blame me for taking opportunities when they arise?

So look, say what you like about Gen Y's willingness to go out and find opportunity and take risks, personally I wear that as a badge of distinction on my sleeve that we're not willing to simply take cough (but then complain about it into our beers at the end of the day) from those higher up, and that since society wants to hand us lemons, we're willing to make lemonade with them.

Don't worry harvyk, I will.. IME my comment still stands.. there may be some Gen Y people who jump jobs and "take risks" but many don't have a sense of loyalty to a company and move on when they think the grass is greener elsewhere.

 

[nlagalle]

Loyalty only works if it's two ways. Maybe you're lucky to be working for a company where they continue to provide you with reasonable remuneration and conditions comparable to your market value over the long term. I don't think this is the norm however.

Sure some companies don't value employee loyalty anymore, but some still do, so why should they lay off someone at 65 who has shown loyalty for years at one company?

 

[Tristanm]

Sure some companies don't value employee loyalty anymore, but some still do, so why should they lay off someone at 65 who has shown loyalty for years at one company?

I agree with the point you're making. I would tweak it a little myself to say that if someone was not physically fit to perform the same role as they were previously working on, surely they could be utilised in training new staff or in some other capacity their skills were valued.

My point was that the working environment doesn't necessarily encourage as much loyalty as it once did. Having said that, I must admit that when interviewing candidates if they've jumped ship on a yearly basis (contractors excepted) I would have serious questions about the value of putting them forward.

 

[harvyk]

Of course that is dependent on the type of work you do. some job types by their nature are only short term, but many still are longer term. depending no the field you are in, could determine your perceived view.

Don't worry harvyk, I will.. IME my comment still stands.. there may be some Gen Y people who jump jobs and "take risks" but many don't have a sense of loyalty to a company and move on when they think the grass is greener elsewhere.

Our idea of loyalty disappeared in the early 90's with "the recession which we had to have". Whilst my family was ok, I know quite a few other families who had their dad's "In a job for life" be shown the door.

Most Gen Y that I know rarely move jobs sideways just for the sake of it, when they move jobs it to either gain a step up (eg higher position / more money / both), or to gain a new set of skills which their current employer couldn't (or wouldn't) give them.

In my cases, each move has been a step up from the last one, never just a step sideways. One of the reasons why I don't see myself leaving my current job anytime soon is because I see options to build skills within my role which will be valuable for my career in general. One could say it is a very selfish attitude, but knowing there is no such thing as a "job for life" these days, making sure you have your progression plans ready is important if you don't want a period of unemployment.

 

[blackcat20]

I am more concerned with older - particularly female - flight attendants who would struggle to lift the emergency exit doors. If there are a number of injuries on board there maybe no-one close handy to help. I believe Civilian aircrew should have to pass medicals which are as stringent as the RAAF because they almost always have more passengers to look after and maybe evacuate. Obese pilots should also have to resign if they cannot meet the same BMI as military aircrew. People do not seems to realize that the greater your weight the more easily you become fatigued, and just as on the road, fatigue is a killer.

Sorry, but BMI isn't a valid tool to be using when it comes to something like that

BMI in general is flawed; it doesnt take into account any difference between fat and muscle weight.

Most Gen Y'ers wouldn't have spend more than 5 years in a single job - they just move on. Why wouldn't companies than spend a fair whack on training etc want to get some return out of it?

I disagree, it's a common theme that they have no sense of loyalty to a company and keep hopping around..

And what's wrong with staying at one company for so long? I've been at the same company for 20 years and have no desire to leave yet. Why should I leave after 45 years?

Gen Ys are always tarnised with the same brush; like most generalisations its an unfair one. Id love to stay in one job for more than a year or two but its not always possible, despite loyalty. We're often treated poorly by employers who make the same presumption.

 

[nlagalle]

Our idea of loyalty disappeared in the early 90's with "the recession which we had to have". Whilst my family was ok, I know quite a few other families who had their dad's "In a job for life" be shown the door.

Most Gen Y that I know rarely move jobs sideways just for the sake of it, when they move jobs it to either gain a step up (eg higher position / more money / both), or to gain a new set of skills which their current employer couldn't (or wouldn't) give them.

In my cases, each move has been a step up from the last one, never just a step sideways. One of the reasons why I don't see myself leaving my current job anytime soon is because I see options to build skills within my role which will be valuable for my career in general. One could say it is a very selfish attitude, but knowing there is no such thing as a "job for life" these days, making sure you have your progression plans ready is important if you don't want a period of unemployment.

See I know Gen Y'ers (more so that other generations) that do hop jobs, quite often as they get bored. Now it may not be the same applied to all, but it is higher that age range than older people in the workforce. now of course some are happy where they are, and do stay longer, but it isn't the norm.

Again it all depends on your industry. while it may not be a "job for life" is can still be a "job for a long time". It all depends on the industry.

 

[nlagalle]

Gen Ys are always tarnised with the same brush; like most generalisations its an unfair one. Id love to stay in one job for more than a year or two but its not always possible, despite loyalty. We're often treated poorly by employers who make the same presumption.

Ok I'll agree it does no good to generalise, but my point above still stands. That age bracket is less likely to stay in a job for a longer period that someone older (where a longer term job is there).

 

[blackcat20]

Ok I'll agree it does no good to generalise, but my point above still stands. That age bracket is less likely to stay in a job for a longer period that someone older (where a longer term job is there).

It doesn't help that people of my generation are often kept on contracts (my job is year to year, as are many of my friends); it's hard to be loyal to a company that will drop you in a heart beat.

 

[nlagalle]

It doesn't help that people of my generation are often kept on contracts (my job is year to year, as are many of my friends); it's hard to be loyal to a company that will drop you in a heart beat.

It may be generation based, but more in certain professions what what I have seen (IT being one for short contracts). I know some people in younger generations who aren't on contracts, and I know older people who are.

 

[ftm]

While many aircraft have a power assist to help open the door in an emergency, the assist will only be activated if the door is armed. Crew are still required to demonstrate they are able to open the door manually incase the assist fails or the door has been disarmed for whatever reason.

The 737 which would have to be the most popular ac with airlines in both the US and AU has no assist and requires a fair amount of effort to open normally to a fully opened position let alone when the door is armed.

And aren't crew required to demonstrate bi annually that they can open these doors? So it would be safe to assume that if they can open them in training that they can open them in an emergency?