Are other airlines also as bad as Qantas?

[prozac]

In 1986 I went to Europe in Y. Chose a window seat, and still had plenty of room to get out into the aisle without making the other 2 pax in the row stand up. Paid $1,200 for the fare then and could probably still get a fare to Europe for $1,200 now if I looked for it. Not sure of the relative value of $1,200 30 years ago and now.

It is hard to believe we paid so much then relative to wages.
This site compares value - https://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php
In your specific case it suggest - If you want to compare the value of a $1,200.00 Income or Wealth , in 1986 there are five choices. In 2015 the relative:
historic standard of living value of that income or wealth is $2,600.00
contemporary standard of living value of that income or wealth is $2,720.00
labor earnings of that commodity is $2,580.00 (using the unskilled wage) or $2,840.00 (using production worker compensation)
economic status value of that income or wealth is $3,510.00
economic power value of that income or wealth is $4,690.00

Apologies for OT post.

 

[opusman]

Not sure of the relative value of $1,200 30 years ago and now.

According to one calculator, between $2900 and $6900 depending on the method used.

 

[Flying mermaid]

None of them? Really?? You prefer the recliners in the 1980's style F then? And no flat beds in J ??

Oh allright - some of them good. Flatbeds definitely a big improvement and entertainment systems. I remember when having a little video player was fantastic so you had a choice of maybe 10 extra movies you could watch... But on the whole as far as service and food goes, I don't find improvements.

The first time we flew F with Qantas, the phoned up and we had a long discussion as to what woul be suitable meals for them to supply for the children - pretty much tailored the meal to what they would like.

 

[katiebell]

EK do exactly the same. Go compare F and J menus... you can do that on the ek site.

Perhaps this is what AJ meant when he said QF would take the best (i.e. the EK option) from both airlines in the JSA: another QF enhancement for every journey. The menus used to be entirely different anf they should be to reflect the price difference

 

[Flying mermaid]

So finally on the 3rd July having got the wedding planned and organised (No longer in the Blue Mountains without water, electricity or anything and at Jaspers Berry near Nowra ), I sent the following email to the FF area

Good Afternoon

Last year I paid for two business class fares to Singapore for my daughter and her partner. The booking reference is ******.


Shortly before the first flight in April the leg from Canberra to Melbourne was changed to an economy only plane and they were downgraded to Economy.


Flight 1: 9-Apr-2016 CBR - Canberra QF1527


I complained about this and requested compensation for the downgrade. The operator refused, but after talking to her Supervisor she assured me he was taking ownership of the issue and my daughter and her partner would receive Business status credits and points for that leg. I still actually have an emotional link to Qantas (which I am trying very hard to sever), so I really hoped this would happen. However it is clear that it is not going to, so I am requesting you to credit their accounts with the business class credits and points for that leg. Currently they have flex economy.


While I understand that from your point of view the money paid was the same whether that leg was Business class or economy, from my point of view you offered a business class seat, business class status credits and business class points for a certain sum of money, I accepted and paid and then they received none of it. I thus request compensation for them for the loss of all three items i.e. points, status credits and seat/food.


The second item concerns an award flight that was cancelled by Qantas. It was an award flight for my daughter and I booked via my husband's account. The booking was ******. It was business to Sydney on the 7th May and then economy return on the 8th May. We had commitments in Sydney until 5ish on the Saturday, so booked a late evening return. 24,000 points each was deducted from my husband's account and we paid the fees via CC.


A few days before the flight, Qantas cancelled the flight we were on and moved us to a 4:30 flight on the Saturday (SYD-CBR). When I phoned I was told the flight before ours was full and the only available one was the 4:30 one which was impossible for us to make. I was thus forced to request that leg be cancelled and I booked Virgin back (our first Virgin flight - it was actually very good, so that was a positive to come out of that debacle).


The money was credited back to the CC, but to date 8,000 points x2 (16,000 points), has not been credited to my husband's account.


I look forward to your response to these issues.


Yours Faithfully


Flying Mermaid

 

[Flying mermaid]

On the 10th I noticed that 16,000 points had been Credited to Mr FM's account and the next day I received this email

"Dear FM, Miss FM and Miss FM's partner

Thank you for your further feedback to our Frequent Flyer department.

I have organised for the Business Class points and status credits to be allocated to Miss FM and partner for the downgrade on the 9th April from Canberra to Melbourne.

Our Frequent Flyer department has now refunded the 8,000 points per person for the Sydney to Canberra cancelled flight on the 7th May.

I would like to apologise for the many troubles that you have had with your flights. We certainly don’t disrupt our customers on purpose, as I’m sure you appreciate.

It is my opinion that our Telesales manager, our Yield manager and our Disrupts manager need to be informed of the many ways in which you have been affected by the disruptions to your itineraries and I have forwarded your feedback to them for internal review.

Your feedback will assist Qantas in preventing such issues in the future, so I would like to thank you for bringing these matters to our attention.

If you have further feedback relating to xx_xx_xx_, please click here.Yours sincerely

Jessica
Customer Care Executive"

I noticed there was no mention of compensation, which I hadn't really expected to get, but it was good to rant a bit. Anyway this morning I received a phone call from Qantas, saying they were going to give 2,000 points per person as compensation for the downgrade.

So really I have to say that a) they responded very quickly once I finally complained and b) were very nice, polite and pretty much gave everything I wanted.

I still really love Qantas staff and on the whole enjoy flying them, however we have booked to fly Singapore Air in Suites in October, to give them a try and see what we think.

 

[love_the_life]

Good luck with that FM. QF has not been very helpful so far in your problems. Hope something positive comes of this sooner rather than later.
I was just thinking about the Mother of the Bride today and wondering how the wedding plans were going as time is ticking by.

Edit - you must have been posting while I was typing - good news then eventually but you shouldn't have to chase QF up like this.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Good luck with that FM. QF has not been very helpful so far in your problems. Hope something positive comes of this sooner rather than later.
I was just thinking about the Mother of the Bride today and wondering how the wedding plans were going as time is ticking by.

Edit - you must have been posting while I was typing - good news then eventually but you shouldn't have to chase QF up like this.

Oh well - it wasn't much of a chase really. It would just be nice if they didn't keep changing things! Quite happy to have changes due to weather or whatever, but this constant fiddling and canceling of flights drives me bonkers (wedding is totally under control, Jaspers will do pretty much everything!)

Also a bit that might be interesting - I had a survey from Choice last month with a list of possible campaigns for the next year. One of them was airlines and how they compensate for delayed flights etc. So possibly Choice might be a good avenue for complaints - if they did decide to take up this issue and included downgrades, we might actually end up with some legislation.

 

[JohnCarrWestwood]

In my field. it doesnt take much to piss a client off.. likewise, alternatively , it only takes a sprat to catch a mackerel and earn kudos IF DONE PROMPTLY.

 

[TomVexille]

Having now flown suites. It's very good

 

[katiebell]

In my field. it doesnt take much to piss a client off.. likewise, alternatively , it only takes a sprat to catch a mackerel and earn kudos IF DONE PROMPTLY.

As someone who works in risk and human factors I completely get it that things do not always go to plan. What makes me feel like Munch's the scream is when no one attempts to fix the problem or, worse, gives me the run around/ignores the issue/treats me like an idiot/condescends/patronises or in any other way does not treat me with a little bit of common courtesy and recogniose the contract I had with the business (i.e. I paid for x and expect to get x). As I believe that if I complain I should be equally vocal wehn thigns are done well I let my frineds and colleagues know the good and the bad.

 

[katiebell]

Oh well - it wasn't much of a chase really. It would just be nice if they didn't keep changing things! Quite happy to have changes due to weather or whatever, but this constant fiddling and canceling of flights drives me bonkers (wedding is totally under control, Jaspers will do pretty much everything!)

Also a bit that might be interesting - I had a survey from Choice last month with a list of possible campaigns for the next year. One of them was airlines and how they compensate for delayed flights etc. So possibly Choice might be a good avenue for complaints - if they did decide to take up this issue and included downgrades, we might actually end up with some legislation.

Choice should campaing for EU-style compensation rules (I have not seen an overbooked sign at check in since the EU cracked down on the airlines)

 

[katiebell]

a lot can be deduced from the processes an organisation has for lodging complaints and comments. QF has the worst i have tried to use (of any organisation, not just airlines)

 

[gaz0303]

a lot can be deduced from the processes an organisation has for lodging complaints and comments. QF has the worst i have tried to use (of any organisation, not just airlines)

I submitted an EU comp claim with Brusells Airlines. 4 weeks after no response, I contacted them via Facebook. Told that they will take 10 weeks to look at claims lodged via the online system. A similar request for Eu Comp with QF was acknowledged personally within 3 days. Guess the proof of better service will be who pays up first.

 

[marki]

So finally on the 3rd July having got the wedding planned and organised (No longer in the Blue Mountains without water, electricity or anything and at Jaspers Berry near Nowra ), I sent the following email to the FF area

Good Afternoon

Last year I paid for two business class fares to Singapore for my daughter and her partner. The booking reference is ******.


Shortly before the first flight in April the leg from Canberra to Melbourne was changed to an economy only plane and they were downgraded to Economy.


Flight 1: 9-Apr-2016 CBR - Canberra QF1527


I complained about this and requested compensation for the downgrade. The operator refused, but after talking to her Supervisor she assured me he was taking ownership of the issue and my daughter and her partner would receive Business status credits and points for that leg. I still actually have an emotional link to Qantas (which I am trying very hard to sever), so I really hoped this would happen. However it is clear that it is not going to, so I am requesting you to credit their accounts with the business class credits and points for that leg. Currently they have flex economy.


While I understand that from your point of view the money paid was the same whether that leg was Business class or economy, from my point of view you offered a business class seat, business class status credits and business class points for a certain sum of money, I accepted and paid and then they received none of it. I thus request compensation for them for the loss of all three items i.e. points, status credits and seat/food.


The second item concerns an award flight that was cancelled by Qantas. It was an award flight for my daughter and I booked via my husband's account. The booking was ******. It was business to Sydney on the 7th May and then economy return on the 8th May. We had commitments in Sydney until 5ish on the Saturday, so booked a late evening return. 24,000 points each was deducted from my husband's account and we paid the fees via CC.


A few days before the flight, Qantas cancelled the flight we were on and moved us to a 4:30 flight on the Saturday (SYD-CBR). When I phoned I was told the flight before ours was full and the only available one was the 4:30 one which was impossible for us to make. I was thus forced to request that leg be cancelled and I booked Virgin back (our first Virgin flight - it was actually very good, so that was a positive to come out of that debacle).


The money was credited back to the CC, but to date 8,000 points x2 (16,000 points), has not been credited to my husband's account.


I look forward to your response to these issues.


Yours Faithfully


Flying Mermaid

Perfect .... I am making s template for this as it always happens to me I get nothing!!!

 

[katiebell]

I submitted an EU comp claim with Brusells Airlines. 4 weeks after no response, I contacted them via Facebook. Told that they will take 10 weeks to look at claims lodged via the online system. A similar request for Eu Comp was acknowledged personally within 3 days. Guess the proof of better service will be who pays up first.

Not surprising as Brussels Airlines is the orphan son of Sabena (sodding awful, bloody exasperating, never again)

 

[Flying mermaid]

Perfect .... I am making s template for this as it always happens to me I get nothing!!!

I got the impression they were receptive more because I have never asked for compensation before, rather than the eloquence of my email.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Guess the proof of better service will be who pays up first.

You'll need to be careful with this "race" - 3K processed my refund on the same day.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I got the impression they were receptive more because I have never asked for compensation before, rather than the eloquence of my email.

I'm not sure 'first time' or 'third time' would make much of a difference - there's no 'one off' with regards to your rights as a consumer. If you paid for a product but didn't receive it you are entitled to have it rectified or compensated. No matter how many times the issue happens.

For some reason airlines continue to be allowed to operate in some sort of vacuum where consumer rights get suspended... while the rest of the the commercial world operates in 2016, airlines are in the 1950's. Yes there are weather delays, and ATC. But plenty of times problems are the airlines' own making but the same outdated rules, supposedly sanctioned by governments, are allowed to be exercised. The EU and to some extent US and Canadian DOTs have made airlines more accountable, but sadly not in Australia

 

[katiebell]

I'm not sure 'first time' or 'third time' would make much of a difference - there's no 'one off' with regards to your rights as a consumer. If you paid for a product but didn't receive it you are entitled to have it rectified or compensated. No matter how many times the issue happens.

For some reason airlines continue to be allowed to operate in some sort of vacuum where consumer rights get suspended... while the rest of the the commercial world operates in 2016, airlines are in the 1950's. Yes there are weather delays, and ATC. But plenty of times problems are the airlines' own making but the same outdated rules, supposedly sanctioned by governments, are allowed to be exercised. The EU and to some extent US and Canadian DOTs have made airlines more accountable, but sadly not in Australia

It is worth remembering that if your flight originates in the EU the EU rules apply to compensation regardless of the home country of the airline. I suspect the same applies to flights from the USA.