Are other airlines also as bad as Qantas?

[coco50]

While I totally agree with you, as a soon to be geriatric, I don't have enough years left to be bothered wasting it on campaigns against airlines.

The whole loyalty thing has led to people tying themselves to one airline, which can led to uncaring service. In the "old days", if an airline slipped then you moved to another. People used to hop between TAA and Ansett quite easily which had a built in motivator to improve for the airline losing customers. Now people tolerate a lot more because of the handcuffs. Great for airlines, not so good for customers.

Anyway Miss FM has returned and all went well ( apart from not loading her meal order). There was a terrible DYKWIA behind in 4 E - apparently insisted on his meal coming first because he wanted to sleep and after he had bullied the FAs into doing so, went to sleep and snored loudly for the whole flight, as well as screaming "No" every 5 minutes in his dreams. He walked off the flight still complaining to his friends about the poor service. Apparently he had his button pressed for 15 minutes before anyone came.

This is where an application of a pillow over the offender's nose and mouth for about three minutes is warranted!

 

[Flying mermaid]

This is where an application of a pillow over the offender's nose and mouth for about three minutes is warranted!

She came close, but decided she didn't want to be escorted off the plane in hand cuffs

 

[JohnK]

I've learnt the power of complaint - complain and complain and complain and one day someone might actually do something about it. Mind you this strategy means you have to be seriously ticked off about something to bother. But if we spread the joy and as a matter of fact lodge a complaint, for the record, then who knows. But rolling over will just let the corporations get away with rorting.

That's a good strategy.

Too many people sit back and accept poor service. I'll just keep complaining. Occasionally it gets me what I would have expected in the first place.

 

[katiebell]

That's a good strategy.

Too many people sit back and accept poor service. I'll just keep complaining. Occasionally it gets me what I would have expected in the first place.

Some years ago I met a fellow pax who was a senior company person: he told me that a complaint is a gift as it gives a business an opportunity to improve. This is very true as many problems are not apparent unless a person on the receiving end complains. I have since learned that the way a business responds tells a lot about how much a business wants to improve or, alternatively, how arrogant management happens to be. There is a variant on the latter: management is so bad that staff dare not try to do the right thing as management will then see the staff member as part of the problem and not part of the solution.

QF certainly fall into the latter category but I am not sure whether staff do not care or do not dare.

Either way QF is getting more LCC in its attitude to pax and does not value the benefit of repeat business and word of mouth. I once read that for every problem a person encounters s/he will tell, on average, five people and for everything that goes well one person, on average, is told.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Either way QF is getting more LCC in its attitude to pax and does not value the benefit of repeat business and word of mouth. I once read that for every problem a person encounters s/he will tell, on average, five people and for everything that goes well one person, on average, is told.

I still tell people about the IRROPs arrangements that I received, and while I had to do quite a bit of ground work myself (such as informing the person on the phone that the flight will be substantially delayed despite it wasn't showing up in the system just yet), they had always found a way to accommodate me as necessary. This is a big reason why I'm still in the QF camp at the moment.

 

[Altair]

How much warning does Qantas give before downgrading one from Business to Economy? Are you given the option of cancelling and getting a refund? If this ever happened to me (not likely as it's not likely I'll every fly business) and I had the option I'd cancel, get the full refund and book economy with points (assuming seats are available). Is the ACCC aware of this rort?

Interesting in theory but in practice not really workable. If a flight has been cancelled with little or no notice the likelihood of award seats would be very low as affected passengers are booked on the other available flights.

Sometimes you are not given any warning. A couple of threads on AFF in the past year leave bitter taste in mouth. The one with the elderly couple in LAX was really bad.

Generally the downgrade wouldn't be an issue if you can travel another day but getting back to family and/work is a priority for some people.

And the Qantas stance of using last minute full fare economy to calculate the compensation is the kick in the guts once you are down....

In my case of EK First on QF code to be put on a QF 737 in Economy it has been explained to me.
I was offered to go on the following day's EK flight in First, which I refused as I needed to be in SYD in the morning.
I was offered to take the next available QF flight but only Economy seats were available. This was a Friday night flight so I can understand why so few seats, especially after an A380 was cancelled. I asked about other airlines, eg. NZ and EK said no Business Class seats were available and reroutes to get to SYD that night were not possible.
I accepted the Economy seat and was told that QF will contact about compensation refund etc. QF did not I had to proactively follow it up.
I did receive a refund which I have questioned and I have been told the following.
1) Evidently I was given the full refund of the First ticket for that sector,
2) Upon agreeing to take the Economy flight I evidently agreed that I was buying the segment, of the cheapest available fare at the time using the credit from my refund of the First segment. This meant that I received the benefits of the new product eg. Flexibility, status credit and QFF points, service. I was never told by staff that this was what effectively happens or that I no longer receive the First class SC/points as I no longer have that product but a Flexible Economy product.
3) In regards to cheaper Economy fare that was available at the time of my original fare purchase. That fare was not available for my flight at the time of cancellation/repurchase, if so they would have used it for the repurchase. If I wanted that fare I would have been required to waited for a flight until that is available.
4) QF met it obligations under its Customer Charter, which really is window dressing as the reality is not a very customer focused experience.
I can understand where QF is coming from in my case. I do not know what would have happened if the flight was part of more complex itinerary rather than a simple A-B return. What I do not like is the very poor communication of what my options were, how that would impact me in terms of refund, lack of proactive follow up in regards to refund etc. This mirrors another poor QF customer experience when there was an oversell situation, QF very poor on the communications front.

 

[opusman]

Yep, you got well and truly Joyced.

 

[Anna]

I was never told by staff ... that I no longer receive the First class SC/points as I no longer have that product but a Flexible Economy product.

I would have insisted on ORC in these circs. I would have kept asking to speak to people's supervisors until I got high enough up in the chain for someone to make the decision to give them to me, if I was getting told no at first.

 

[coco50]

She came close, but decided she didn't want to be escorted off the plane in hand cuffs

I subtle bump on the side of the seat with the hip on the way to the ladies would have given some satisfaction without receiving any jewellery or an escort!

 

[katiebell]

A few years ago I was on the QF9 that was severely delayed after the 2 QF planes had a prang on the apron at LAX. At the time I got the call from QF I was unaware of the incident, the seriousness of the damage or the extent of the delays or potential cancellations that would ensue.

I politely, clearly and firmly told the QF cs man that I was not prepared to travel on EK at all and gave him my reason for not flying EK. I ws not downgraded and did fly on QF9 with significant delay but, fortunately, I did not have work in London on the afternoon of the scheduled arrival.

Perhaps there is an advantage in being very clear about what is not acceptable at the outset? I do realise that not everyone has the same flexibility with time as I was fortunate to have.

In the end though, if a product sold is not as advertised Australian consumer law states that the customer is entitled to a full refund. Sometimes this is not apparent until the product has been used (I would argue that by the time you get to the airport you are already using hte product as the journey has begun, esp if OLCI has been used). This is regardless of any small print T&C as these cannot replace the law even if companies try to tell you that the T&C are binding. I would think that QF are pushing it here but I am not a lawyer.

 

[bobw]

A good news story... A couple from Helsinki (we met them in Okinawa) decided to visit us for Easter. They booked economy with Finair. The day before the flight Finair called them with bad news and two questions. Their first leg HEL to NRT was overbooked. Would they mind being rescheduled. And would they mind being upgraded to Business Class.

For the last several years, my wife and I have used Finair business class as our preferred carrier and have never had a problem. I usually takes a little longer because the first Euro stop is Helsinki, but its also usually considerably cheaper and offers excellent service.

 

[marki]

I probably will send them an email tomorrow - it does seem a bit wrong they can just do these changes at will with no thought to the customer. I am more a vote with my feet person than one to go and fight over money though.

It's happened to me. Currently sitting in the Flag ship AA club after arbitrarily AA cancelled my 9:00 AM flight to NY(AA002) I had sat in front of gate 47A for 30 min unable to do anything because of my QF 93 flight departing late from Melbourne and unable to make for lost time whilst in flight. I must say I am pissed off. I made to the gate at the beginning of boarding. The A class reservation has been dropped to Y class on a later 12:30 flight AA004. I had no say in this. (makes you angry) but how are they to consult you mid flight. My flight did not meet the minimum connection times. Despite me making it to gate 47A in Terminal 4 with time to spare. (57 min) was the official connecting time. QF 93 was 1hour 24 min late.

Here I was thinking First class passenger will be treated differently and an effort made to get them to the gate on time. Well no its here your new ticket in Y sir at 12:30 and thank you sir, bye sir.

Big eyes roll here I must say. The compensation not even discussed. Bought a BMW M3 getting a Toyota Hatchback. for the premium price of First class. My rights are non existent (most likely)

 

[marki]

Either way QF is getting more LCC in its attitude to pax and does not value the benefit of repeat business and word of mouth. I once read that for every problem a person encounters s/he will tell, on average, five people and for everything that goes well one person, on average, is told.

Oh well now all the people on AFF know about the stuff up. I have taken heart regarding Australian consumer law. If the product is not as advertised on is entitled to a full refund.

Hey Qantas not 5 dollar difference between discount first and Full economy fare.

 

[Anna]

It's happened to me. Currently sitting in the Flag ship AA club after arbitrarily AA cancelled my 9:00 AM flight to NY(AA002) I had sat in front of gate 47A for 30 min unable to do anything because of my QF 93 flight departing late from Melbourne and unable to make for lost time whilst in flight. I must say I am pissed off. I made to the gate at the beginning of boarding. The A class reservation has been dropped to Y class on a later 12:30 flight AA004. I had no say in this. (makes you angry) but how are they to consult you mid flight. My flight did not meet the minimum connection times. Despite me making it to gate 47A in Terminal 4 with time to spare. (57 min) was the official connecting time. QF 93 was 1hour 24 min late.

Here I was thinking First class passenger will be treated differently and an effort made to get them to the gate on time. Well no its here your new ticket in Y sir at 12:30 and thank you sir, bye sir.

Big eyes roll here I must say. The compensation not even discussed. Bought a BMW M3 getting a Toyota Hatchback. for the premium price of First class. My rights are non existent (most likely)

I'm a bit confused about whether your flight was cancelled or whether you were moved to a different flight because QF93 was late?

Anyway, if you are on a YUPP then them's the breaks, mostly you get F but sometimes you don't. But if you are on a paid F fare then you can either insist on F on the next flight where F is available (noting that it might be later than 12.30) or take the next available flight in Y and take the issue of compensation up later. I'd also probably be asking at the desk about J availability.

I know it sucks when you are mid-journey and tired and jet lagged and this sort of carp happens.

 

[Flying mermaid]

It's happened to me. Currently sitting in the Flag ship AA club after arbitrarily AA cancelled my 9:00 AM flight to NY(AA002) I had sat in front of gate 47A for 30 min unable to do anything because of my QF 93 flight departing late from Melbourne and unable to make for lost time whilst in flight. I must say I am pissed off. I made to the gate at the beginning of boarding. The A class reservation has been dropped to Y class on a later 12:30 flight AA004. I had no say in this. (makes you angry) but how are they to consult you mid flight. My flight did not meet the minimum connection times. Despite me making it to gate 47A in Terminal 4 with time to spare. (57 min) was the official connecting time. QF 93 was 1hour 24 min late.

Here I was thinking First class passenger will be treated differently and an effort made to get them to the gate on time. Well no its here your new ticket in Y sir at 12:30 and thank you sir, bye sir.

Big eyes roll here I must say. The compensation not even discussed. Bought a BMW M3 getting a Toyota Hatchback. for the premium price of First class. My rights are non existent (most likely)

it really sucks when this sort of thing happens, but I guess when it is an on the day thing, it is more understandable (albeit still not fun). It is when they do it with weeks of notice that it really annoys me . Still haven't sent my email off - Miss FM is turning into Bridezilla, so I have my days full.....

 

[Flying mermaid]

sigh - these schedule cutbacks are stuffing me around - had two changes this week. One a real pain as we were on an evening flight home from Sydney on a Saturday and they moved us to a 4:10 flight. As Bridezilla has a wedding shop appointment at 3pm that really couldn't work and so it was either stay in Sydney a second night or cancel and swap to Virgin. So I have just booked my first Virgin flight - not sure my nerves can stand the excitement. And no lounge access! I looked at paying for access, but at $65 per person, I think Miss FM and I will spend that quite happily somewhere else

 

[travelislife]

sigh - these schedule cutbacks are stuffing me around - had two changes this week. One a real pain as we were on an evening flight home from Sydney on a Saturday and they moved us to a 4:10 flight. As Bridezilla has a wedding shop appointment at 3pm that really couldn't work and so it was either stay in Sydney a second night or cancel and swap to Virgin. So I have just booked my first Virgin flight - not sure my nerves can stand the excitement. And no lounge access! I looked at paying for access, but at $65 per person, I think Miss FM and I will spend that quite happily somewhere else

Request a status match! Then you can have your lounge access!

 

[drron]

Well this was pure QF service.On QF62 last night and the small plates menu had sea bream cerviche so I thought that would make a nice appetiser and follow it with the pork belly sliders."sir both those are main courses tonight so you are only allowed one."Didn't see a cerviche going out.
Then an hour after take off the FA comes around and says would you like a drink whilst waiting for your meal.What have you got?White wine,red wine and spirits.What red wines do you have.A cabernet and shiraz.Exactly which brands so then he brings the bottles.
Wow what a business class experience.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well this was pure QF service.On QF62 last night and the small plates menu had sea bream cerviche so I thought that would make a nice appetiser and follow it with the pork belly sliders."sir both those are main courses tonight so you are only allowed one."Didn't see a cerviche going out.
Then an hour after take off the FA comes around and says would you like a drink whilst waiting for your meal.What have you got?White wine,red wine and spirits.What red wines do you have.A cabernet and shiraz.Exactly which brands so then he brings the bottles.
Wow what a business class experience.

This is, unfortunately, an example of the inconsistency of QF crews. That this is not uncommon is the concern.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Request a status match! Then you can have your lounge access!

I actually thought about it, but the flight is on the 7th, so doubt if they could do it by then? Is it hard to do?