Another Jetstar complaint

[markis10]

Actually not always true.........
So JQ FAs can double as GAs.

Interesting occurance, I wonder if they had last minute crew changes, I have never seen operating crew board with baggage after PAX, especially after they have acted as a gate agent, only time I have seen it is when they are deadheading back to a home port.

 

[djfuzz]

Interesting to read the comments here about the nature of the person writing the complaint - reminds me a little of the AA orange juice fiasco.

I wonder if those opinions would have been swayed at all if she hadn't put in the needless details, or if the complaint had been made by a member of a forum like this first - do the airline and the GA simply get a free pass because the complainant suffers a mild case of DYKWIA? Have none of us encountered, or acknowledged the possibility of encountering, GAs acting unreasonably?

Having said all that, of course the cardinal rookie sin of swearing at the GA did not help, but I'm not sure that's a get out of jail free card for the other parties involved.

Curious to see how this plays out.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Have none of us encountered, or acknowledged the possibility of encountering, GAs acting unreasonably?

I am sure NO ONE is saying this....I encounter bad GAs on a regular basis...but I choose not to make a stand because I know I will come off second best. It would have to be pretty serious for me to make a scene.

Regardless one cannot tell a GA to "cough* off" and not expect any recourse.

 

[ejb]

I am sure NO ONE is saying this....I encounter bad GAs on a regular basis...but I choose not to make a stand because I know I will come off second best. It would have to be pretty serious for me to make a scene.

Regardless one cannot tell a GA to "cough* off" and not expect any recourse.

Totally agree. Shut up and sit down or risk being left behind.

Flying is not the time to push a point.

ejb

 

[harvyk]

Flying is not the time to push a point.

It both is and isn't. You pick your time to make a point, because if you do it right and with the right people it can get you lounge access, or extra nice treatment through out your flight. That said coming up against a GA \ FA who is not in the mood is not the time to do it...

She made the mistake of swearing at the GA (even if he deserved it). Had she not swore, but stood firm, and asked to speak with another airline representative PRIOR to boarding (pushing past did nothing for her cause), then I believe she would have been in the clear.

This would have held even more weight had she asked a couple of the pax who witnessed the event to stay back and give their accounts to other ground staff.

Her complaint ticks all the boxes, a description from her point of view what happened, a request that is reasonable (except for firing the employee, maybe just some retraining). I think she did waffle a little and include additional information which was not required. But I believe (I could be wrong) that it is a somewhat accurate description of what has happened.

 

[ejb]

It both is and isn't. You pick you time to make a point. Coming up against a GA \ FA is not the time to do it...

She made the mistake of swearing at the GA (even if he deserved it). Had she not swore, but stood firm, and asked to speak with another airline representative PRIOR to boarding (pushing past did nothing for her cause), then I believe she would have been in the clear.

This would have held even more weight had she asked a couple of the pax who witnessed the event to stay back and give their accounts to other ground staff.

Her complaint ticks all the boxes, a description from her point of view what happened, a request that is reasonable (except for firing the employee, maybe just some retraining). I think she did waffle a little and include additional information which was not required. But I believe (I could be wrong) that it is a somewhat accurate description of what has happened.

Yes I agree her reaction did nothing to improve the situation and she would have been better served by relaxing and following the GA instructions and then asking for a manager. This plan of action could have resulted in her flying with her family and not incurring extra expense.

The waffle about not having medication for her asthmatic child is hard to believe, I am asthmatic and would never be away from medication for 3 days.

ejb

 

[Mal]

I also agree that telling someone to F--- off isn't really a good way to endear their respect or to have them see things your way.

The detail of her account surprises me, especially the direct quoting.

Jetstar does have the right to do the following:

“In the event of any further reports of unruly, intimidating or violent behaviour by yourself, Jetstar will exercise its right to refuse you carriage on all of its services,” Mr Mirabito said in a letter, dated December 8.

Although, I suspect it is rarely done.


This appears to be the complaint referred to in the article. I've X'd out the name, but it shouldn't be too hard to find:

WANTED TO FIND OUT AT BOOKING DESK IF WE COULD UPGRADE TO BUSINESS (STAR CLASS) ON THE RETURN FLIGHT FROM THAILAND USING FREQUENT FLYERS POINTS, AS WE WERE FLYING THERE STAR CLASS. WAS TOLD BY xx_xx_XX (STAFF MEMBER) AT DESK THAT THERE WAS NO POSSIBILITY AS FREQUENT FLYER MEMBERS WERE THE 'LOWEST OF THE LOW' - HE WAS EXTREMELY RUDE AND CONDESCENDING - IT WAS VERY TEMPTING TO JUMP THE DESK AND HAVE A QUIET WORD WITH HIM, BUT I WANTED TO GET TO THAILAND. APPROACHED HIM (xx_xx_XX) 6 MONTHS LATER ON A FLIGHT TO BALI - TOOK HIS NAME FOR THIS COMPLAINT, AND WAS AGAIN TOLD NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN TO HIM AS FREQUENT FLYERS WERE STILL 'THE LOWEST OF THE LOW'. THE ARROGANCE OF THE MALE PERSON (AND I USE THE WORD LOOSELY) ASTOUNDED ME, AND AS AN EMPLOYER OF OVER 20 STAFF, I WOULD HAVE HAD HIM FIRED ON THE SPOT - SURELY THIS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE FIRST COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM.

 

[yo yo ma]

She seems to be a big case of DYKWIA, and likes to highlight irrelevant items such as the reason for her trip. I don't think Jetstar cares if she was with the Dalai Lama. Her spelling is atrocious, and considering she was a former correctional officer and a Psychologist her inter personal skills are lacking.

This is exactly the case... I cannot believe JQ gave her a refund of the fare. Reading her side of the story, I would have denied her boarding as well! Well done to the JQ staff member for sticking to his guns and refusing her boarding.

 

[medhead]

The detail of her account surprises me, especially the direct quoting.

I put the direct quoting down to the corrections officer thing. That is how to do a statement.
(That is why I think the corrections officer information is sort of relevant. it explains why her complaint is the way it is.)

Her complaint ticks all the boxes, a description from her point of view what happened, a request that is reasonable (except for firing the employee, maybe just some retraining).

I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for the employee to be sacked as regardless of her, he should have controlled the situation. But it is totally unreasonable to expect Jetstar to tell you they have sacked him. What Jetstar do or don't do to that staff member is none of the business of any member of the public. That is internal stuff.

 

[yo yo ma]

Her complaint ticks all the boxes...

It only ticks the boxes for DYKWIA

 

[harvyk]

It only ticks the boxes for DYKWIA

- Reason for complaint
- Actions undertaken by both parties
- Desired Outcome

This is the most successful way you can make a complaint. The waffling on a little doesn't help, but most people do it.

I don't think it's a candidate for DYKWIA. At no time did she say those lines, I would also think that stating that the bag has fitted maximum measurement prior (and again proven to fit within measurements) really counts.

Finally for a DYKWIA, there has to be a chance that the person may have been recognised. (Eg a Z grade celeb) I highly doubt it that anyone will recognise this person walking down the street in more than a weeks time.

 

[tuapekastar]

I usually find myself on the arlines' side in this sort of case, but I have to say that is a very comprehensive account of what (allegedly) happened by the passenger concerned.

The "F$$$ Off" aside (and this should never have been said, though I'm sure many here have felt like doing so), it would appear the JQ employee is clearly and very much at fault (conceding I have only read the pax account, not the JQ employee's account, which I'm unlikely ever to read).

The pax may also have been at fault, but it is a fairly damning, well-written (if too long) account of events.

Her spelling is atrocious

Say what? I read the entire account and whilst I certainly wasn't checking it for grammar and spelling I can recall maybe two (there may have been more, but I aint gonna re-read it) spelling errors. If you're suggesting that spelling errors lower the credibility of the information supplied, then forget relying on AFF for useful info.

 

[straitman]

Her spelling is atrocious,

Try running a spell checker over this and you will find that it actually scrubs up OK. Remember that what you read here is 'Transcribed from longhand notes taken at 7:30pm at Gate 49.' so the spelling errors (all 4) could have been from the transcription. For what it is worth the grammar check came up pretty good as well.

End of the day, I think that she (with her "professional" training) really could have avoided this.

Maybe but there are always two sides to a story and sadly we will never hear the other. The JQ staffer should have had a lot more control which would have avoided the issue also.

 

[PineappleSkip]

I have wavered about whose side I would take and wound up in favour of JQ.

There is nothing professional about the "incident report", which should stick to the facts of the incident. It reads like a penny dreadful.

She admitted swearing at a staff member doing his job. There was physical contact between them; this sort of thing often results in allegations of assault from both parties. I suspect the staffer's account of the incident - and I bet he would have filed one - would read very differently. The problem is you only have one side of the story.

But the thing that clinched it for me was that he was a (carry on) bag dragon. I tire of being smacked in the face by precious people with giant carry-ons who are too self important to check their luggage. Go you bag dragons!!

 

[straitman]

But the thing that clinched it for me was that he was a (carry on) bag dragon. I tire of being smacked in the face by precious people with giant carry-ons who are too self important to check their luggage. Go you bag dragons!!

PineappleSkip,

Maybe you should have a look at this thread :!:

The great hand luggage only challenge!!!

 

[djfuzz]

PineappleSkip,

Maybe you should have a look at this thread :!:

The great hand luggage only challenge!!!

Given the feelings already expressed on the matter, perhaps PineappleSkip should skip that thread!

It's certainly happened to me a few times - I agree that being smacked in the head with any luggage is pretty unpleasant, but can't see why that should be held against people who carry on hand luggage only within the limits and are considerate enough not to go around smacking it in others' faces. As that thread proves, many people here strive to travel efficiently, which may require maximising (not exceeding) the efficiency of their entitled carry on allowances.

On the (albeit limited and one-sided) facts before us, there's nothing that indicates that the complainant wasn't such a person - in which case, the GA had should have reigned it in and not gone off on a power trip.

But as I said before, that doesn't mean she wasn't incredibly stupid for retorting / swearing at the GA - just that she's human, and most of us have the inherent capacity for such stupidity, at varying degrees of breaking points. Flying may not be the time to make a point, but we all have buttons - competent service providers should generally be trained to avoid pushing them, and deal with situations that arise in a calm and professional manner. If the JQ GA stepped over the mark, he should be reprimanded or retrained, no matter how stupidly the passenger responded.

 

[dajop]

The thing is, trying to think if I was in the customer's situation - what has happened, what might happen. I might ask to see a supervisor or I might just let it go and let the bag be checked. I guess if it were QF, you'd just let the bag be checked, but with JQ there are cost implications. There may well be incentives for staff to be overly zealous in their policing of carry on policy in which I can understand JQ will defend the actions of their GA - after all he is just enforcing the business model. Where do you draw the line - because this lady kicked up a fuss and was a little short tempered - should the GA just let her board and let the captain of the plane deal with it? Hard to tell.

If you want some (disturbing/amusing) stories about hand luggage checking have a look at the Skytrax/airline quality website - reviews of Ryanair!

 

[serfty]

Note that JQ have a 10Kg total weight carry-on allowance.

At the airport - Travel information - Jetstar Airways

 

[yo yo ma]

I don't think it's a candidate for DYKWIA. At no time did she say those lines,

Finally for a DYKWIA, there has to be a chance that the person may have been recognised. (Eg a Z grade celeb)

The JQ staff member said “she's got no boarding pass!” - what makes her think she has a right to board an aircraft without a boarding pass? This is a perfect case of DYKWIA as per the three quotes below:

• "...after my spending the last three days with the Dalai Lama..."
• Mesha Sendyk - B. Sc. (Psych.) Dist.
• "When the police arrived I told them... that I was an ex-corrective services officer and a Psychologist."

I would also think that stating that the bag has fitted maximum measurement prior (and again proven to fit within measurements) really counts.

What about the weight; was it under 10kg?



She mentions a phone call allegedly made, "The male staff member loudly and dramatically yelled “49! Hello. Helloooooo, Helloooooo!”, into the phone,"- The relevance of this is?

She knew her daughter "witnessing these verbal attacks, upon us would upset her..." yet she continued to escalate the situation by stating "Oh, f--- off, I said dismissively"

"The woman in front of me had bundles of items including her computer and was red eyed and close to tears" Hearsay
"The woman next to me leaned towards me and said, “That was outrageous, you should complain". Hearsay
What the flight attendant, police & a man in the front row said is all hearsay too.

“Look here!, on your contract”, he stabbed his finger into the page repeatedly, “it says so here in your contract…I control who and what goes onto this plane!” All the while underlining and circling a paragraph on my boarding papers dramatically. This appears to be the correct thing to do... When someone doesn't understand something, it is good to show it to them in writing.

"as I did not have xx_xx_xx_x's medication with me..." Whose fault is this?
"...O.K. It's time to go home now and see Otto”, (her dog). Relevance?

This lady has not taken any responsibility for her actions... Wonder how long it will be until she appears on ACA/TT selling her story?

 

[bkkrop]

, and most of us have the inherent capacity for such stupidity, at varying degrees of breaking points. Flying may not be the time to make a point, but we all have buttons - competent service providers should generally be trained to avoid pushing them, and deal with situations that arise in a calm and professional manner..

So well put, it is the main reason I will not fly with a LCC. I can see myself in this situation every time I pass one of their check ins. You mean, I have to line up with all these people, I always travel with this much carry on, just who do YOU think you are telling me to stand aside. WOW, they would press my buttons, there would be alarm bells going all over the terminal. Bottom line is there are some people who need LCC and there are others who just shouldn't go anywhere near them, just not worth all the hassle and the blood pressure thing too, regards