Another A380 problem

[jb747]

There has been considerable discussion on this board and others on the relability of the A380, given your experience I would be interested to hear your opinion if possible and also what you consider are the key differences between it and the 747 from up the front, for instance are pilots really getting too much info on possible issues?

Its introduction to service has been much, much slower than happened with the 744. It's taking longer to amass the information needed by, well, everyone, on just how to make it work as well as possible. The most common issue with the aircraft is computers. Almost every failure that you can have, can be reset by restarting the controlling computer. And, most times, just like Win XP, that's the end of the problem.

The information question I'm not sure about. We actually can't access as much info as we did on the 744 (by going into the CMC maintenance pages). But, I think it relates to some recent AB info which the media described as them reducing the info we get. That's not the case at all. What is happening is that some 'failures' are having their tolerances widened out. What they planned and thought they built, hasn't really turned out that way in the real world.

Overall though, I've had a good run of departures, with most being very close to schedule. It's actually a bugger of an aircraft to preflight, so it's very easy to lose time there. You just can't afford to be late to the a/c. I was on the 744 in the early days, and we had plenty of issues with that.

It will settle down, once the worldwide pool of information increases to that critical point. For an individual airline, you probably need around 9 to get there. Once there's a 100 in service (instead of 25 or so) everything should settle.

 

[oz_mark]

But, I think it relates to some recent AB info which the media described as them reducing the info we get. That's not the case at all. What is happening is that some 'failures' are having their tolerances widened out. What they planned and thought they built, hasn't really turned out that way in the real world.

I read somewhere that one of the issues is that the newness of the aircraft has made everyone tend to be conservative with things, and replacing things perhaps a bit earlier than they might do on aircraft they had more experience with.

My single experience was good, and it left pretty close to on-time.

 

[markis10]

JB747 - thanks for the info, if you have been on the 744 for a long time there is no doubt we would have chatted at some stage if you happened to fly T17/18, or perhaps early morning inbound to Bindook when I was on SYD South approach before 6AM

Appreciate the input on the 380 introduction from someone with a solid Boeing background, the Airbus vs Boeing argument seems to be a modern day version of Cessna versus Piper for some.

 

[Mal]

I read somewhere that one of the issues is that the newness of the aircraft has made everyone tend to be conservative with things, and replacing things perhaps a bit earlier than they might do on aircraft they had more experience with.

I remember something similar to that too. I recall (conservative) pre-failure alerts were being triggered on items that didn't need immediate attention, but could be looked at later. So Airbus was in the process of software upgrades etc to reduce the severity of some of the alerts.

 

[QFA380]

Hi,

Just for clarification, SQ maintain QFs A380s during Singapore transits.

Regards

 

[anat0l]

Welcome to AFF, jb747 and QFA380.

QFA380, interesting handle you've chosen to come to this particular thread!

 

[straitman]

They probably did ask SQ for the part - from my pervious experience from a technical delay also requiring a new part, they asked SQ for it and they laid out the conditions of borrowing the part.

The conditions were almost impossible to fulfill - and I don't blame them - delay the QF flight more and annoy 450 passengers who could potentially end up not wanting to fly Qantas again and may end up at SQ!

Airlines share information about safety incidents and the like but when it comes to sharing parts... different story!

milehighclub,

You are right off the mark with this one as the airlines do source parts from each other as it is a two way street and it is to nobody's advantage to operate any other way.

As was pointed out later (post #45), SQ actually maintain the QF aircraft when they are in Singapore.

Hi,

Just for clarification, SQ maintain QFs A380s during Singapore transits.

Regards

QFA380, welcome to AFF.

 

[jb747]

Just for clarification, SQ maintain QFs A380s during Singapore transits.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The engineers we deal with in the coughpit are QF and AB (well they speak with French accent, I'm not sure who writes their pay cheques). The work may well be done by SQ people, but at their behest.

 

[jb747]

Appreciate the input on the 380 introduction from someone with a solid Boeing background, the Airbus vs Boeing argument seems to be a modern day version of Cessna versus Piper for some.

They are both religions, and I can write many pages on what is wrong with both. Basically though, much of the AB is very good, some is brilliant, and then they go and ruin it with some 'what were they thinking'.

Now, if we could make a Boebus, with the best of both, it would be brilliant. Of course, if they ever cross breed we'll end up with something that contains only the 'what were they thinking' items from both brands.

 

[NM]

Since they banned pax in the coughpit, I make an effort to go back and meet as many of my passengers as I can. I learn lots of interesting stuff that way, as well as meeting lots of interesting people.

And I am forever indebted to you for twice inviting me to your "office" back in the days when it was allowed (and when aus.aviation was useful ). Once was back in your 767 days, PER-MEL, when seat 1A was left vacant from the end of meal service to landing . The second was into AKL.

I also managed to meet the esteemed Sandy Howard a few times, including him inviting me up front for landing into LAX and then just before his retirement and sadly after the new rules, when he spent about 45 mins sitting on the "buddy" seat at 4K consuming multiple cups of coffee while we discussed the Connie and the restoration of the Catalina and Neptune.

Wonderful experiences for someone interested in aviation. Unfortunately I don't get to ride in the A380 much (only once so far) as most of my recent trips have been to HKG. But I did get a final ride in OJK before she left.

 

[milehighclub]

milehighclub,
You are right off the mark with this one as the airlines do source parts from each other as it is a two way street and it is to nobody's advantage to operate any other way.

As was pointed out later (post #45), SQ actually maintain the QF aircraft when they are in Singapore.

I didn't say they don't source parts and SQ was willing to lend the part - but this two way street has some speed bumps!

In this particular instance where the aircraft was delayed for a mechanical reason, SQ made it difficult for Qantas to obtain the part.
As such QF got a dispensation from Airbus to fly the aircraft (and naturally the aircraft was still safe - it required something to be turned off)

SQ may well maintain the aircraft but if QF can't come up with the part then there is nothing SQ can do, unless they are willing to lend a part, which in my experience has not always been the case

 

[markis10]

And here was I thinking we only had one AFF'er involved in the fracas

 

[jb747]

I didn't say they don't source parts and SQ was willing to lend the part - but this two way street has some speed bumps!

In this particular instance where the aircraft was delayed for a mechanical reason, SQ made it difficult for Qantas to obtain the part.
As such QF got a dispensation from Airbus to fly the aircraft (and naturally the aircraft was still safe - it required something to be turned off)

SQ may well maintain the aircraft but if QF can't come up with the part then there is nothing SQ can do, unless they are willing to lend a part, which in my experience has not always been the case

I think this is going off the rails. As far as I recall, the aircraft was fixed in Singapore. I don't recall reading any dispensations (ATP). Airbus don't give them anyway, they are issued by CASA.

Seriously, I doubt that SQ made anything hard. I simply don't think they had the part available. Which means it had to come from somewhere else, which in turn takes time.

 

[simongr]

Just for clarifiction I believe that everyone pretty much (including Ben Elton) were put back on the same aircraft (mostly to the same seats) rather than shuffling us all onto other airlines. We also had the same crew (cabin and pilot).

Home today on the 747 via HKG in an F seat (J service) which as I have 1 hour connection in HKG I hope is on time departure...

 

[jb747]

Just for clarifiction I believe that everyone pretty much (including Ben Elton) were put back on the same aircraft (mostly to the same seats) rather than shuffling us all onto other airlines. We also had the same crew (cabin and pilot).

I was referring to the return sectors. It came back empty.

 

[milehighclub]

I think this is going off the rails. As far as I recall, the aircraft was fixed in Singapore. I don't recall reading any dispensations (ATP). Airbus don't give them anyway, they are issued by CASA.

Seriously, I doubt that SQ made anything hard. I simply don't think they had the part available. Which means it had to come from somewhere else, which in turn takes time.

Just to clarify, this particular incident was last year, not this most recent one

SQ was willing to give the part as it was available and obviously QF had to replace the part which they were happy to do. SQ set an unrealistic timeframe for QF to return the part given it had to come from Sydney (which they knew and were happy with but didn't give them a fair amount of time to get it to SIN) so QF looked at other options (and this is where the numerous calls to Airbus came from who approved the final fix - perhaps dispensation is the wrong word, but heard it used at the time)

I completely understand the SQ doesn't want to be short of parts, but why bother offering it when they know QF can't meet the conditions

Anyway this is just my particular experience, I'm not saying it's the norm, I know it's not the norm - just sharing my story

 

[simongr]

Quick update - a $1,000 QF travel voucher was waiting for me on my return to OZ...

 

[ejb]

Quick update - a $1,000 QF travel voucher was waiting for me on my return to OZ...

Quite a generous offer I think.

Enjoy the free travel.

ejb

 

[simongr]

It is a lot of $ but not really much use to me - most likely it will be used to offset the price of company travel...

 

[NM]

I was referring to the return sectors. It came back empty.

JB, This had me thinking (yes, its that time the year again). When flying an aircraft like the A380 or 744 without passengers, do you have any cabin crew on board as well? Or are you left to fend for yourselves in the galley when you want to eat or have a coffee etc?

Do you use an F suite for the rest break or the usual crew rest area?