AMEX rejection

[Waddygib]

This probably isn't helping your cause at all.

Suspect churning is doing all the damage

 

[iamsuperandrew]

Suspect churning is doing all the damage

Everyone I have spoken to who has applied and been rejected has a history of churning

 

[Chrizztofa]

Everyone I have spoken to who has applied and been rejected has a history of churning

Out of interest, is there a definition of churning? Is it applying for X cards in a certain time frame, cancelling cards as soon as the bonus points arrive, or something else entirely?

 

[kpc]

Everyone I have spoken to who has applied and been rejected has a history of churning

And do you blame Amex/ banks?

 

[Airbumps]

Out of interest, is there a definition of churning? Is it applying for X cards in a certain time frame, cancelling cards as soon as the bonus points arrive, or something else entirely?

I'd very much like to know what AMEX's definition of churning is. I've been rejected by them three times in the past two years whilst due to churning (well, I presume so because no other banks have had an issue giving me credit and I am a churner! )

That said, I've been "clean" for about 8 months now and haven't applied for an AMEX in over 12 months...so I'd like to know when they consider me "reformed".

 

[burmans]

I'd very much like to know what AMEX's definition of churning is. I've been rejected by them three times in the past two years whilst due to churning (well, I presume so because no other banks have had an issue giving me credit and I am a churner! )

That said, I've been "clean" for about 8 months now and haven't applied for an AMEX in over 12 months...so I'd like to know when they consider me "reformed".

Having been stung in the GFC (by brokers who knew the criteria and abused the system) financial institutions these days are much more opaque about their credit criteria! Indeed my experience is that this knowledge is tightly held within the credit decisioning community, most other FI staff don’t actually know either.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Exactly one month later I have applied for the same card again. Got the expected "We will notify you of the outcome within 5 - 10 business days."

Not expecting a different outcome this time around. But given I have no other credit card that I can apply for until late 2026 I'll do the same application every month with AMEX until that date. At the very least I'll cost them the $1.70 price of stamp each time!

Letter from AMEX received today and dated the day before I applied! But not the standard rejection letter I was expecting.

The letter says that "we noticed that you submitted two applications for the same product, so we've cancelled the second one for you" and they are reviewing my application.

Seems strange as they rejected my first application a month earlier.

Perhaps I'll get the standard rejection letter next week.

 

[andyrb]

Perhaps I'll get the standard rejection letter next week.

Have you considered just not wasting your time?

They clearly have no interest in taking you on a customer.

To be blunt: you're simply making a fool of yourself.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Have you considered just not wasting your time?

They clearly have no interest in taking you on a customer.

To be blunt: you're simply making a fool of yourself.

Thanks for the advice.

I've been churning for more than 15 years. The game always changes. I acknowledge that some people don't have the ability to keep up with the changes and don't understand how things work. It's a game. Play or don't play, that's up to you, but insults are fairly puerile, especially on AFF.

I'll be applying again in exactly 1 month from the last rejection and as always I'll keep waiving as I turn left.

And going forward you're welcome to block fools. I know I've done just that now.

 

[levelnine]

The letter says that "we noticed that you submitted two applications for the same product, so we've cancelled the second one for you" and they are reviewing my application.

You're going to learn very quickly about Amex dupe app rules with this strategy

 

[Chrizztofa]

Thanks for the advice.

I've been churning for more than 15 years. The game always changes. I acknowledge that some people don't have the ability to keep up with the changes and don't understand how things work. It's a game. Play or don't play, that's up to you.

I'll be applying again in exactly 1 month from the last rejection and as always I'll keep waiving as I turn left.

Not sure if it's appropriate to ask, but out of interest, are the multiple Amex applications appearing on your credit report?

 

[andyrb]

appearing on your credit report?

They probably are, but it doesn't matter. He'S pLaYiNg ThE gAmE!

 

[Dr Ralph]

Not sure if it's appropriate to ask, but out of interest, are the multiple Amex applications appearing on your credit report?

First one didn't show. Might be too early for the second one to show. In any case it wouldn't concern me if they did show.

 

[Waddygib]

Out of interest, is there a definition of churning? Is it applying for X cards in a certain time frame, cancelling cards as soon as the bonus points arrive, or something else entirely?

A threshold of cards opened and then closed within 12 months, going back 3 years (which is as long as you can tell from the bureau).

Its pretty obvious if you look at a bureau file if anyone is playing the game.

 

[burneracc]

On the other hand, I’m waiting for Dr Ralph’s triumphant declaration of approval

 

[Hadun]

If you get the email requesting income verification after submitting an application, is that a positive sign regarding approval chances or still nothing guaranteed?

I convinced my wife to give their ultimate card a try since she hasn't applied for any new cards for over a year now. I don't recall ever getting asked for income verification myself after making it onto their 'churner's blacklist' so thought this might have been a positive sign. But after uploading her payslips several days ago it's been radio silence since.

Just realised that I forgot to provide an update on this. They did eventually get around to calling her and approving. So that's one data point for their churners filter list not being permanent if you can hold off on any new applications for >12 months.

 

[iamsuperandrew]

And do you blame Amex/ banks?

Nope, I actually prefer it as it would dilute the card even more

 

[MELso]

I think I must still be on Amex's naughty list.

Applied for the Qantas Ultimate card earlier this arvo and got the '5-10 day' email with no other requests for information. Ah well, next year...

No hard enquiries on file since late 2024, but did have a fair bit of Citi activity last year including opening one and closing two Ready Credit facilities, and opening a Clear card with a large balance transfer (which could be impacting my serviceability).

 

[jazjaz]

Hello Everyone. I have been a lurker here for a long time but made an account because I wanted to jump into this conversation.

A little about me: I used to work for American Express and left the company last year to work elsewhere in the sector.

After reading through this thread and seeing all the comments I wanted to give some info. I won't be sharing any insider or secret knowledge but will instead just stick to some general info.

1. American Express are cracking down HARD on churners. If the system identifies you as a churner will make it hard or almost impossible to be approved.
   
   
2. I believe the system does not care much if you have multiple cards with other institutions but does care if there is a history of multiple card closures.
   
   
3. Putting in multiple applications over a short period of time is a very bad idea. This will put you on a fraud/spam list or permanent decline list. If this happens you will never hold an AmEx card again.
   
   
4. Calling to speak with a representative will have no change in the outcome of the decision to decline an application. Frontline staff do not have a way to override this or escalate. The only time they can do something is if there has been a major error in the application which they can escalate for a review.
   
   
5. There is no way to cheat the system to get approved. The system will approve applications based on credit reporting and strict internal business rules. You can have excellent credit history but still be declined based on other criteria. There are a lot of these rules and they vary depending on the card you are applying for and other factors.
   
   
6. American Express want long term card holders. I believe there are some changes happening later this year that reward these customers but I don't know much about it as I left the company around the time this was in early development. I don't know if this will happen at all.

I am happy to answer questions as long as people know and understand I will only give general info and not share anything confidential or the like.

Thanks - Jaz.

 

[I love to travel]

Hello Everyone. I have been a lurker here for a long time but made an account because I wanted to jump into this conversation.

A little about me: I used to work for American Express and left the company last year to work elsewhere in the sector.

After reading through this thread and seeing all the comments I wanted to give some info. I won't be sharing any insider or secret knowledge but will instead just stick to some general info.

1. American Express are cracking down HARD on churners. If the system identifies you as a churner will make it hard or almost impossible to be approved.
   
   
2. I believe the system does not care much if you have multiple cards with other institutions but does care if there is a history of multiple card closures.
   
   
3. Putting in multiple applications over a short period of time is a very bad idea. This will put you on a fraud/spam list or permanent decline list. If this happens you will never hold an AmEx card again.
   
   
4. Calling to speak with a representative will have no change in the outcome of the decision to decline an application. Frontline staff do not have a way to override this or escalate. The only time they can do something is if there has been a major error in the application which they can escalate for a review.
   
   
5. There is no way to cheat the system to get approved. The system will approve applications based on credit reporting and strict internal business rules. You can have excellent credit history but still be declined based on other criteria. There are a lot of these rules and they vary depending on the card you are applying for and other factors.
   
   
6. American Express want long term card holders. I believe there are some changes happening later this year that reward these customers but I don't know much about it as I left the company around the time this was in early development. I don't know if this will happen at all.

I am happy to answer questions as long as people know and understand I will only give general info and not share anything confidential or the like.

Thanks - Jaz.

Is there anything more specific you can share on what Amex defines as a churner. Thanks