AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[Deleted User]

Perhaps something may be done with Surcharges...?

THE Reserve Bank will consider capping credit card fees charged by hotels, airlines and taxis amid claims consumers are being hit with excessive charges.
The RBA has launched a review of credit card surcharging, raising concerns that some businesses are using excessive fees to make money rather than to cover the cost of the transaction.
The review marks a return to the landmark credit card reforms pushed through by the RBA last decade, which were designed to make payment costs more transparent while eliminating cross-subsidies.


Read more: Credit card fees | Reserve Bank considers fee cap

Discussion thread here: - http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/general-credit-card-discussion/rba-takes-aim-card-surcharges-30697.html

 

[Mal]

Well Amex are timely with responding to "Dob in the merchant" complaints.

Thank you for contacting American Express regarding your recent experience at xx_xx_xx

Recent? I logged that well over a year ago. lol.

 

[oz_mark]

Recent? I logged that well over a year ago. lol.

Recent is such a relative term :shock:

 

[lovestotravel]

Well Amex are timely with responding to "Dob in the merchant" complaints.



Recent? I logged that well over a year ago. lol.

Yep I find they take 6-15 months to come back with a reply!

 

[Deleted User]

Being new to Amex, I find it simply amazing that my local restaurant wants to charge me 3% for using the Amex, and yet coles / woolworths / Kmart / Big W etc. accept it with no surcharge no questions asked...

I guess this means that even before I held an Amex card, I was secretly paying a surcharge at coles / woolworths etc. to cover those with AMEX.

After saying the above, I wont be so loyal to my local restaurant and on the hunt for surcharge free zones

 

[Moopere]

I guess this means that even before I held an Amex card, I was secretly paying a surcharge at coles / woolworths etc. to cover those with AMEX.

Well, yes ... and no in my view. Sure, they have a cost model that allows the use of almost any payment method and so you could argue the toss about whether there should be a discount for cash, maybe a bigger one for cheque (no cash handling), different prices for VISA versus Amex etc.

Ultimately though, the real game is to cover your costs, maintain your margin and have your customers happy to shop with you by making it super easy to actually _pay_.

I've found that with a few notable exclusions (car hire and hotels) almost all the big players in almost any market you can think of is happy to take just about any form of payment you can imagine, even personal cheques at many supermarkets and like stores.

What you see with this nickel and diming is small business mindset. Someone, usually the owner, has got his nose out of joint in relation to the cost of the Amex and is having an emotional reaction.

 

[SeaWolf]

I think it also has to do with the type of store. Things like supermarket, a deli, a liquor store, a service station and other places that are likely to be the victim of an armed hold up always seem less likely to be surcharging for electronic payments, probably because they want to discourage the use of cash. It may even be part of their insurance conditions that they have to discourage the use of cash to minimise the damage in a hold up. I guess a cafe or restaurant doesn't see itself as being at a high risk of being stuck up and isn't bothered by having a lot of cash in the till.

Anywhere that only accepts electronic payments and has no cash facility (like utilities that just mail you a bill, or airlines) seem much more likely to surcharge because they want to try and drive you towards BPay or direct debit, presumably because it's cheaper.

 

[Moopere]

I guess a cafe or restaurant doesn't see itself as being at a high risk of being stuck up and isn't bothered by having a lot of cash in the till.

Could be, yet McDonalds seems happy to accept my Amex even I only want to buy a chesseburger ... no surcharge, in fact, not even a signature.

Anywhere that only accepts electronic payments and has no cash facility (like utilities that just mail you a bill, or airlines) seem much more likely to surcharge because they want to try and drive you towards BPay or direct debit, presumably because it's cheaper.

My own suspicion about this is that its competition based. There is not enough competition in utilities, car hire, hotel, etc, etc so those industries see an opportunity to gouge and they do so. As for driving us towards direct debit transactions, yes, I think you are right, this pushes the cost of the transaction back onto the customer generally so would seem preferrential to the vendor I suppose.

Honestly though, it really is nickel and dime stuff - if you can get away with it fine, but its indicative, in my view, of the culture of the business itself and I suspect that if other opportunities were to arise then consumers would avail themselves of those new opportunities.

I was at a coffee shop the other day which I've never been to before, seemed nice - ordered my goodies and was gobsmacked to discover that they only accept cash, no cards at all. Its fine for owners to make choices which are right and sensible for them and work with their business plan - but the coffee wasn't cheaper to me as a result and it was a huge PITA, really, very inconvenient to have to pull the little amount of 'emergency cash' from my wallet (complete with cobwebs as it just doesn't get used).

So, whilst the coffee and food was great and the service also great, whats really remained in my mind was the moment of inconvenience when I wondered, for a second, if I actually had enough cash on me to cover the bill. I won't return because its all just too difficult and there is another vendor two doors away who I usually frequent and accepts all cards as well as cash for the same general pricing and efficient service, good food.

 

[zzyss]

What you see with this nickel and diming is small business mindset. Someone, usually the owner, has got his nose out of joint in relation to the cost of the Amex and is having an emotional reaction.

Is there any evidence that the terms for Amex are more odious than the other providers, especially in regards to the time that it takes to clear funds? Anecdotally, I've been told at least a couple of times that they refuse Amex because they can't handle the "slow" cashflow because their business (mostly restaurants) doesn't have enough margin and their budgets are too tight to include several days wait for the funds to clear.

 

[yohy?!]

Is there any evidence that the terms for Amex are more odious than the other providers, especially in regards to the time that it takes to clear funds? Anecdotally, I've been told at least a couple of times that they refuse Amex because they can't handle the "slow" cashflow because their business (mostly restaurants) doesn't have enough margin and their budgets are too tight to include several days wait for the funds to clear.

I believe Amex takes an extra day than Visa or MC - used to be longer.

In general Amex has tighter conditions in place in terms of fraud and backcharging against merchants.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

I believe Amex takes an extra day than Visa or MC - used to be longer.

In general Amex has tighter conditions in place in terms of fraud and backcharging against merchants.

In my experience Visa / MC ALWAYS settle next day - even Sat and Sun processing will settle next day.

AMEX 2 to 3 working days - process Friday and it will appear on Tues, Wed or even Thurs following.

YES 100% correct on AMEX vigilance re fraud / card mis-use etc - they miss nothing.

 

[Moopere]

Is there any evidence that the terms for Amex are more odious than the other providers, especially in regards to the time that it takes to clear funds?

I don't have any no. There are folk with more knowledge than me who've made some comment on this over time. Seems like there is generally <1% difference in cost and maybe a few days to settle.

Anecdotally, I've been told at least a couple of times that they refuse Amex because they can't handle the "slow" cashflow because their business (mostly restaurants) doesn't have enough margin and their budgets are too tight to include several days wait for the funds to clear.

I don't buy it. Perhaps I'm deluded as I've never run a food establishment, but honestly, if 2 days and 1% is the difference between profitiability and going to the wall then they must have a kiniption fit when the unused lettuce goes mouldy. Any business running at nett margins of <5% overall are just waiting for the seed capital to end before they go broke. This won't be Amex's fault, its just a bad business plan.

Something about Amex is annoying the small business guys, if it were not so then they would 'warmly accept' Amex just as they do Visa and Mastercard.

 

[edman]

In my main business, Mastercard/Visa/Eftpos settle same day, Amex the next.

In my other business, where the Eftpos is with CBA its next day for Mastercard/Visa/Eftpos and Amex a couple of days.

Though I suspect that being a restaurant and the timing of the transactions being after 5pm, that it could have an impact. One day difference (and its only a timing difference if you are trading most days as you will still be getting regular deposits) is a poor excuse.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I found when setting up Amex for my business that it just took a phenomenal amount of time to actually sort out - even though I filled in all paperwork correctly. Here are the steps that I had to take, and the approximate wait between that step, and the next one in the list:

1) Called the merchant services line to apply for acceptance, and to negotiate a reduced MSF (10 days)
2) Received paperwork in the post that needed to be signed and sent back (5 days)
3) Received a call saying that my merchant facility had been approved, but they wanted to verify my business further (to protect from 'fake' business sign-ups who only process fraudulent transactions) (2 days)
4) Received final approval, and told that they would request that my EFTPOS terminal be linked with Amex. (3 days)
5) After 3 days, it still hadn't been linked, so I called my EFTPOS provider, who said that Amex had not contacted them... after giving them my Amex merchant number, the terminal began approving Amex transactions 3 days later.

Total: 23 days from phone call to being able to process Amex

AFTER ACCEPTANCE HAD BEEN SORTED:

* Requested that they amend errors in my listing in the Amex online directory (took 1 week for them to process)
* Requested a replacement Merchant Welcome Pack, as I'd damaged the nice decal they gave me when I had to have my EFTPOS terminal swapped out (different story, but nothing to do with Amex)... Was told that the particular decal I was after was *only* available in the welcome pack, and that if none of the other decals suited the shape that I needed, they could just send me a replacement welcome pack... After finally receiving it, I discovered that they sent a different welcome pack to the first time, and the envelope with it that had "your point-of-purchase materials" printed onto it, was actually empty... I never got around to calling again, so I continue to use the damaged decal (lol...)
* Had to ask 3 times to receive an updated merchant plate for my manual (back-up) imprinter, and it took a month after the last phone call to arrive

To be perfectly honest, if I wasn't a member of this forum (having now seen the number of people who are like me in expecting Amex acceptance or going elsewhere), and being an Amex cardholder myself, I would have most likely given up after the first few weeks and just canned the Amex merchant account... The merchant service fee that I ended up receiving was quite acceptable - it's almost double my 'standard' Visa/MC rate, but it's almost equal to the rate charged for business and platinum/Signature cards, and cheaper than accepting an international Visa/MC... in my industry, it's mostly those that hold platinum and business cards that want to use Amex, so I wouldn't really save any noticeable amount of money by refusing Amex... The settlement times aren't too bad either - Visa/MC is always next day, Amex takes only one extra business day (which is only annoying for transactions processed on Friday, as they will then take until Tuesday of the following week to appear)... although a minor inconvenience, it's still no reason to drop acceptance (and makes checking the accounts Tuesday morning just that much better )

So really for me, it's simply "the hassle" of setting everything up and dealing with their staff in foreign call centres that could have potentially caused me to drop acceptance, as opposed to the fees and settlement days... But now that everything is all sorted, they're much more pleasant to deal with

And now that my rant is over, I can whinge about discovering the 5% SURCHARGE in Cotton On Body yesterday!!! Originally it was 3%, then no surcharge, and now I'm told it's 5%... yet another business trying to rip customers off to make a profit! Will not be returning there in a hurry...

 

[Deleted User]

Originally it was 3%, then no surcharge, and now I'm told it's 5%... yet another business trying to rip customers off to make a profit! Will not be returning there in a hurry...

5% seems a bit rich....! Take your business elsewhere...

 

[ChrisFlyer]

My thoughts exactly! I've sent an email to their head office just to confirm if it is actually 5% (as there was no signage, and quite frankly, the person serving me seemed less than competent at their job from other observations, so in retrospect, they could have always said the wrong amount)... I also included in the email that if it was indeed 5%, I'd happily forward their details to the RBA (who, as mentioned earlier in this topic, are investigating businesses that surcharge cards to make additional profit)

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Wow, this thread has been inactive for a few weeks now! Turns out that Cotton On (and related stores) only charge 3%, not 5% (they said that the girl on the till quoted the wrong fee and that they would be retrained in that area to ensure that she doesn't exaggerate the fee again).

I've just returned home from a weekend in Melbourne - to be perfectly honest, I find AMEX acceptance in Brisbane to be much better than in Melbourne (although perhaps I was just unlucky, as I remember it was quite good during my last visit)! Over just 2 days, three different merchants claimed to accept AMEX (either via decals in the window or by asking them), but when trying the card on their terminal, it appeared to not be configured for AMEX correctly. One declined all of my AMEX cards with the same system error, but MasterCard worked with no problems (with the merchant having window decals and a sticker near their till with their AMEX merchant number). Another in Chinatown just showed "Card not accepted" when swiping it - I asked the owner why they had the AMEX logo in their window if they don't accept the card... I was ignored, I asked again, and was ignored again - so that one will definitely be reported through the AMEX website (lol...), and the third said that they accepted AMEX as long as it had a PIN (they didn't accept signature transactions on any card). I entered my PIN, and it declined showing "invalid transaction" (the standard response for that EFTPOS acquirer when AMEX is not setup correctly)... sigh...

If there are any Melburnians on here, out of curiosity, do you find this to be a common issue in Melbourne? I'm used to seeing businesses that have put tape or paper over the AMEX signs (or have only half of it left after they've tried to rip it off), although the only city that I've really had this problem is Melbourne (happened during my last visit also, although just one cafe).

Despite this, I had no problems using AMEX for many small taxi fares, SkyBus, at restaurants in Lygon St, for a theatre concert program, at a small cafe on Bourke Street for only ~$8 worth of coffee, for Metcards at 7-Eleven, and at all of the usual larger and chain stores (including the new Zara store). It was also accepted at Rydges with the usual surcharge, but I was nice to the receptionist when she asked about it. She then saw that my card has "Qantas" on the front, and offered to award QFF points for my stay if I gave her my membership details, even though we stayed on a promotional (and therefore usually ineligible) rate! I'm going to guess that they must get lots of people abusing them for the surcharges - particularly as they charge 3.5% for AX/DC, despite most other hotels charging only 1.5% for all cards.

 

[docjames]

Local Mexican has pamphlets showing "Accepts Visa, Mastercard and Amex" yet when you pay at the counter "sorry, Amex not accepted".

Reported.

 

[hummel]

Local Mexican has pamphlets showing "Accepts Visa, Mastercard and Amex" yet when you pay at the counter "sorry, Amex not accepted".

Reported.

That reminds me. I found a great local Indian place the other week. Amex welcome sign & sticker at front door. Amex sticker at counter.

Hand over Amex... not accepted.

Meal was good but won't be going back on that reason.

 

[rechoboam]

Wow, this thread has been inactive for a few weeks now! Turns out that Cotton On (and related stores) only charge 3%, not 5% (they said that the girl on the till quoted the wrong fee and that they would be retrained in that area to ensure that she doesn't exaggerate the fee again).

I've just returned home from a weekend in Melbourne - to be perfectly honest, I find AMEX acceptance in Brisbane to be much better than in Melbourne (although perhaps I was just unlucky, as I remember it was quite good during my last visit)! Over just 2 days, three different merchants claimed to accept AMEX (either via decals in the window or by asking them), but when trying the card on their terminal, it appeared to not be configured for AMEX correctly. One declined all of my AMEX cards with the same system error, but MasterCard worked with no problems (with the merchant having window decals and a sticker near their till with their AMEX merchant number). Another in Chinatown just showed "Card not accepted" when swiping it - I asked the owner why they had the AMEX logo in their window if they don't accept the card... I was ignored, I asked again, and was ignored again - so that one will definitely be reported through the AMEX website (lol...), and the third said that they accepted AMEX as long as it had a PIN (they didn't accept signature transactions on any card). I entered my PIN, and it declined showing "invalid transaction" (the standard response for that EFTPOS acquirer when AMEX is not setup correctly)... sigh...

If there are any Melburnians on here, out of curiosity, do you find this to be a common issue in Melbourne? I'm used to seeing businesses that have put tape or paper over the AMEX signs (or have only half of it left after they've tried to rip it off), although the only city that I've really had this problem is Melbourne (happened during my last visit also, although just one cafe).

Despite this, I had no problems using AMEX for many small taxi fares, SkyBus, at restaurants in Lygon St, for a theatre concert program, at a small cafe on Bourke Street for only ~$8 worth of coffee, for Metcards at 7-Eleven, and at all of the usual larger and chain stores (including the new Zara store). It was also accepted at Rydges with the usual surcharge, but I was nice to the receptionist when she asked about it. She then saw that my card has "Qantas" on the front, and offered to award QFF points for my stay if I gave her my membership details, even though we stayed on a promotional (and therefore usually ineligible) rate! I'm going to guess that they must get lots of people abusing them for the surcharges - particularly as they charge 3.5% for AX/DC, despite most other hotels charging only 1.5% for all cards.

At 3.5 percent how could it be worth it for FF points? I'd pay but insist on a 10% discount on the whole bill.