AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[zzyss]

I don't think there's any chance of Amex getting Medibank and NRMA to reconsider.

 

[drewbles]

Allianz is in the process of accepting Amex now. It's available for purchases online, so I rang to change my CC over and was told that it's a few weeks off being able to do via the phone, but it's coming.

Good to know (as i've always found them to be excellent price/service wise).

 

[Moopere]

Thats weird. Mercedes Benz insurance which is, so far as I can tell, nothing more than a team inside Allianz has accepted Amex for at least 2 years - but the kicker is that they try for 2.5% surcharge. I'll be speaking with Amex about that before renewal this year

 

[lovestotravel]

Thats weird. Mercedes Benz insurance which is, so far as I can tell, nothing more than a team inside Allianz has accepted Amex for at least 2 years - but the kicker is that they try for 2.5% surcharge. I'll be speaking with Amex about that before renewal this year

It would be expected that someone buying a Mercedes would usually have an Amex, hence the special arrangement.

 

[Moopere]

It would be expected that someone buying a Mercedes would usually have an Amex, hence the special arrangement.

Oh sure, but weird in that if MB insurance is part of Allianz group, which they are, then they must have a corporate agreement with Amex ... and if they have gone this far then why not extend the ability to use Amex to all Allianz's customers??

 

[cove]

The Intercontinental in Sydney has that great smorgasbord but now they are surcharging Amex when the meal is about $70 a head before their loyalty card discount.
Why not make it $72.......and no surcharge.

 

[brha01]

Slightly off topic, but I had an interesting experience at a (quite well known) restaurant in Canberra last night.

Went to pay the bill and was told they dont accept amex. Fair enough, nothing overly strange about that. I handed over the Mastercard and was told that there is a 2% surcharge on all CC transactions (they only accept visa and master). 2% for visa and mastercard?!?!

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt that almost double what they get charged by the bank? Is that even legal?

Needless to say I told them I wouldnt be back.

 

[Walter Plinge]

Received about 10 emails today in response to my reporting of merchants who don't accept Amex.

I am no longer reporting now as they are a waste of time....

Concur. In the flush of enthusiasm when I first got my Amex card I reported some business for not accepting or surcharging. The AMEX responses were just banal boilerplate. It was clear nothing was going to change - and it didn't.

 

[lovestotravel]

Slightly off topic, but I had an interesting experience at a (quite well known) restaurant in Canberra last night.

Went to pay the bill and was told they dont accept amex. Fair enough, nothing overly strange about that. I handed over the Mastercard and was told that there is a 2% surcharge on all CC transactions (they only accept visa and master). 2% for visa and mastercard?!?!

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt that almost double what they get charged by the bank? Is that even legal?

Needless to say I told them I wouldnt be back.

Did they accept Amex before ?

2% could be the charge for a stupid merchant who doesn't shop around

Any surcharge is pretty much legal now.....I have seen up to 5% in some smaller shops for Amex/Diners.

Sounds like they just want cash.... Did they have hand written receipts/bills or printed ?

 

[lovestotravel]

Concur. In the flush of enthusiasm when I first got my Amex card I reported some business for not accepting or surcharging. The AMEX responses were just banal boilerplate. It was clear nothing was going to change - and it didn't.

Yep - A few years ago when I started going crazy on points I reported hundreds of merchants.

Now I don't' bother as the responses are a waste of time.

I usually try to speak to the owner of the business and explain that they should accept Amex. If they refuse to I simply never go back there but I do drop in and ask from time to time if they accept Amex, if not I just walk straight back out.

 

[haydensydney]

Yep - A few years ago when I started going crazy on points I reported hundreds of merchants.

Now I don't' bother as the responses are a waste of time.

I usually try to speak to the owner of the business and explain that they should accept Amex. If they refuse to I simply never go back there but I do drop in and ask from time to time if they accept Amex, if not I just walk straight back out.

I sent my mate the link to this thread - he works at Amex and is quite high up in the merchant area. He responded:

"www.americanexpress.com.au/cardacceptance
If a CM finds this response and it is different to what is being told by Amex they should ring the Call Center to advise differently.
It could have something to do with the Merchant or the Person who went to visit or call the Merchant.
BTW Amex rates are hardly over 3% expecially for retail these days.
I think there are still a lot of perceptions out there that really have no idea of the truth of the real rates being charged by Amex!
They also don't understand the value of the Cardmembers who are at the higher end of the Income scale so the average spend is a lot higher not to mention the rewards on offer to these Cardmember!
Tell them to refer to the Call Center with their concerns."

 

[lovestotravel]

I sent my mate the link to this thread - he works at Amex and is quite high up in the merchant area. He responded:

"www.americanexpress.com.au/cardacceptance
If a CM finds this response and it is different to what is being told by Amex they should ring the Call Center to advise differently.
It could have something to do with the Merchant or the Person who went to visit or call the Merchant.
BTW Amex rates are hardly over 3% expecially for retail these days.
I think there are still a lot of perceptions out there that really have no idea of the truth of the real rates being charged by Amex!
They also don't understand the value of the Cardmembers who are at the higher end of the Income scale so the average spend is a lot higher not to mention the rewards on offer to these Cardmember!
Tell them to refer to the Call Center with their concerns."

Thanks but not worth the effort.

I have done more than I should do by reporting the business.

Firstly I have been to the merchant and been declined to use Amex, I will attempt to speak to the Manager/Owner and express my concern and explain that I will not be back as I wish to use Amex.

I then report the merchant on the website.

If the sales rep visits/calls/emails the merchant and the owner/manager decides to lie to them, then that further shows the stupidity of the merchant.

Yes Amex rate are from 1.8-2.5% generally but some merchants are still on/been offered 3.5%, so they don't bother.

Again, I have talked to the owner, reported them and if the sales rep cannot covert them to accept Amex I doubt calling the call centre and further following it up is going to change anything.

The two recent ones that I reported were a local fruit shop and a relatively fast food chain....

1. This relatively fast food chain is one of the worst run/managed I have visited. Always slow service, placing an order is painful and this is with the owners working in store.... The owner has declined to accept Amex, I reported. Reply was they warmly accept it, went to use it and declined.

2. The fruit shop is run by a bumbling fool as well, and he tried to offer me some loyalty card the other day that he was so proud of. Basically spend $200 and get $5 off your next purchase or something. Yes so good to get a 2.5 reward on a $200 spend. I get more than that from using my Amex at Woolies where the prices are actually cheaper on fruit/veggies. He ha a fruit/veggie shop close to Woolies that is not actually cheap. He was telling me this loyalty card was going to work well. He told me he has no interest in accepting Amex blah blah blah... As always I told him I won't be back until he accepts it, but he didn't care as I am the minority of customers.

Yet I asked him why he was struggling, and mentioned that his prices were higher than Woolies and Woolies has everyday rewards AND accept Amex. He simply didn't understand..... :shock: I expect him to shut up shop in the next 12 months as he said he needs to pick up business to continue to operate. I told him to lower his prices and accept Amex for a start.

Many months ago I reported him, and the reply from Amex a week or two ago was that they don't accept any credit cards. Yet they have always taken VI/MC...

NB: The only reason I was in the fruit shop (as they don't accept Amex) was that Woolies didn't' have what I needed.

I shouldn't be blaming Amex I guess they have followed up on my request and stupid owners/managers have lied to the rep calling I guess.


/Rant OFF - Sorry

 

[Moopere]

Good post

Thanks but not worth the effort.
I have done more than I should do by reporting the business.

Yes, I was going to say this too. If Amex themselves don't have any internal process for Quality Control on these types of enquiries then they have a big problem. For me to go to this much effort I'd have to -really- want my local merchant to accept Amex.

Frankly, Amex should want the local merchant to accept Amex

1. This relatively fast food chain is one of the worst run/managed I have visited. Always slow service, placing an order is painful and this is with the owners working in store.... The owner has declined to accept Amex, I reported. Reply was they warmly accept it, went to use it and declined.

One would think this would be easy for Amex to check. Any transactions in recent times on the shops Amex account? If no, or almost none, then sounds like a problem.

2. The fruit shop is run by a bumbling fool as well, and he tried to offer me some loyalty card the other day that he was so proud of. Basically spend $200 and get $5 off your next purchase or something. Yes so good to get a 2.5 reward on a $200 spend.

Well, yes. I get the point and feel the same about trying to 'educate' fools and make use of their services. Its usually just pain and no gain so best left alone. 2.5% 'reward' is not bad though. The problem for this guy is of course that his rewards are only good with his shop. He'd frankly be far better off just dropping his pricing across the board by 2.5% (at least) and maybe his volume and repeat business (customer loyalty) would improve as a result. God knows what he must be spending on the loyalty plastic cards/accounting ... or was he doing it all on post-it notes (smile)?

 

[lovestotravel]

2.5% 'reward' is not bad though. The problem for this guy is of course that his rewards are only good with his shop. He'd frankly be far better off just dropping his pricing across the board by 2.5% (at least) and maybe his volume and repeat business (customer loyalty) would improve as a result. God knows what he must be spending on the loyalty plastic cards/accounting ... or was he doing it all on post-it notes (smile)?

He did say he spent quite a bit on the cards, plus advertising in the local paper. So probably a few thousand as local paper's are not cheap to advertise in.... They were probably nice colour business cards pretty much with his company logo and name etc etc, all professionally produced.

Meh 2.5% when I can shop at Woolies for the same price and get about 4 Qantas points per $1

1.5 Qantas points on my Amex
1 Qantas point over $30
2 Qantas points per litres on petrol (4 when they have the extra savings)

So about 4 points per $1 (rounded it down due to the $30 min spend and per litre redemption)

That work out for me at about 15-20% reward on future flights in business class :mrgreen:

I do have another fruit/veggie shop that is VERY cheap where I do pay with Visa and another where I pay cash as the prices are about 30-50% cheaper than Woolies.

 

[Moopere]

He did say he spent quite a bit on the cards, plus advertising in the local paper. So probably a few thousand as local paper's are not cheap to advertise in.... They were probably nice colour business cards pretty much with his company logo and name etc etc, all professionally produced.

Yeah, I figured. Prolly cost way more than simply accepting a no surcharge Amex for the apparently 'few' customers who use them. I can't of course even guess the fruit shops margins. But surely its got to be 20-30% gross as a minimum, otherwise a spoiled batch of pears would send you broke. Maintaining margin is important for all business, as is maintaining cash-flow and clientele. Ultimately though, a dollar in your hand is better than a dollar in your competitions hand.

So about 4 points per $1 (rounded it down due to the $30 min spend and per litre redemption)

That work out for me at about 15-20% reward on future flights in business class :mrgreen:

I've not yet been able to find a flight that reaps me more than about 4c/point. Domestic J seems to offer the best redemption I've so far found ... all this indicates to me really is that local J flights are well overpriced....

 

[wxxnxs]

That work out for me at about 15-20% reward on future flights in business class :mrgreen:

Not everyone values points as much as you, I only value mine for 0.05C probably less than that. My company starts charging all credit cards from last year in all Australia&NZ, at the first stage we decided not to charge V/M, but later on top management found AMEX/DINNERS charge extremely higher commission than the others ( I checked it is 3.5% compare 0.95%). They finally decided to charge the average on all cards, although we get so many whingings & complaints from our clients, but the most interesting thing is our business is better than previous. I talked to some of them and was told they wouldn't care so much because they can get more points from the surcharge.:!:

 

[lovestotravel]

Not everyone values points as much as you

That's their loss then isn't it

 

[Moopere]

Not everyone values points as much as you, I only value mine for 0.05C probably less than that.

IMHO $0.005, or 0.5c is about the 'true' monetised value of a point in pretty much all the programs.

However members here have helped me to understand that the redeemable value against goods or services (mainly services ... ie; flights) can be much higher, at least 1c/point and up to 2-3 or even 4c a point if you put in a bit of work on the various carriers sites.

This is actually the point of the fruit shop conversation above. The various carriers are essentially saying that customer loyalty is worth at least 1% off the RRP of goods/services to them. Its not a big ask frankly and unless you are selling computer equipment on ebay (where margins can be <1% ..egad, why does anyone bother?) your business plan and resulting margins should be able to accommodate this - particularly if the loyalty of your customers actually results in increased cashflow from them.

My company starts charging all credit cards from last year in all Australia&NZ, at the first stage we decided not to charge V/M, but later on top management found AMEX/DINNERS charge extremely higher commission than the others ( I checked it is 3.5% compare 0.95%). They finally decided to charge the average on all cards, although we get so many whingings & complaints from our clients, but the most interesting thing is our business is better than previous.

A couple of things there.

- I doubt your business is going better -because- of the oncharging of credit card fees. This would be nonsensical. I suspect something else had changed in the economy or the way your company does business which accounts for more trade. Perhaps it could be -even- better than now if you didn't annoy customers ... which leads me on to:

- If customers are whinging about CC fees you should listen to this. People in AU/NZ rarely complain straight to the face of a merchant unless they are really annoyed. Look around, its true. Sure we complain in private or to friends/colleagues and on forums like this. Is this the sort of word-of-mouth recommendation your company really wants? "Oh they are ok but charge extra for CC?" I doubt it. This problem will come home to roost eventually. Secondly, if your companies market space is really that price conscious that 1-2-3-4% surcharge on sales is a grim reality (I'm thinking you are in travel or selling computers/tech equipment) then I reckon you'd get less complaints to remove the surcharge and increase your pricing by 4% across the range, then do as the goo* guy* do and offer a cash discount (if you have decided that you -really- want cash).

I talked to some of them and was told they wouldn't care so much because they can get more points from the surcharge.

Yes you will, but no-one who knows enough to even be hunting FF points will be happy with that. A 1% surcharge pretty much nullifies any points you might get on the whole transaction. 2-3-4% costs you more than the points are actually worth. As you have rightly said at the beginning, points monetary value is about 0.5c / point. If we assume that mostly people gain 1 point : dollar spend that 0.5%. If you pay more than that in a points gaining transaction you are losing or operating in the extreme sport of points speculation - assuming you will definitely be able to redeem at a higher rate.

 

[wxxnxs]

A couple of things there.

- I doubt your business is going better -because- of the oncharging of credit card fees. This would be nonsensical. I suspect something else had changed in the economy or the way your company does business which accounts for more trade. Perhaps it could be -even- better than now if you didn't annoy customers ... which leads me on to:

- If customers are whinging about CC fees you should listen to this. People in AU/NZ rarely complain straight to the face of a merchant unless they are really annoyed. Look around, its true. Sure we complain in private or to friends/colleagues and on forums like this. Is this the sort of word-of-mouth recommendation your company really wants? "Oh they are ok but charge extra for CC?" I doubt it. This problem will come home to roost eventually. Secondly, if your companies market space is really that price conscious that 1-2-3-4% surcharge on sales is a grim reality (I'm thinking you are in travel or selling computers/tech equipment) then I reckon you'd get less complaints to remove the surcharge and increase your pricing by 4% across the range, then do as the goo* guy* do and offer a cash discount (if you have decided that you -really- want cash).

Trust me, I hate this policy so much when I heard that unfortunately the explaination from head office is "we are just following the other competitors within the same industry", which is true and one of them on the other side of road launched 3.5% surcharge on AMEX/DINNERS and 1% on V/M.

BTW, due to our company's stingy policy, the cc surcharge will also apply to staffs as well,WTF. Anyway, I did not spend any cents in our company's product since this policy starts.

 

[Moopere]

"we are just following the other competitors within the same industry", which is true and one of them on the other side of road launched 3.5% surcharge on AMEX/DINNERS and 1% on V/M.

Its a risky policy for any company to drive customer relations down to a common low level with your peer companies. It allows for a new market space that new-start competitors will fill.

The fact that your customers are actually complaining should be a huge warning siren to your upper management. Though it seems ok right now, these same whinging customers will jump ship to your competitors within seconds of a better deal becoming available and you will lose them forever as by then you have gained a reputation for gouging.