AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[Legoman]

Exactly the same thing is happening with card surcharging in this country as what happened with ATM use fees when the government intervened supposedly in the customer's interests. Before ATM fees were controlled with legislation that demanded they were transparent, displayed on screen and given an option to cancel before they imposed, it was easy to find fee-free ATMs. Whether they were your own bank's or an affiliate of your bank/card brand or whatever, you could find an option that worked for no fee. After the legislation was introduced, it woke all the ATM providers up to the knowledge that they could charge for transactions and so they did - to the maximum allowed. 90% of the free options dried up overnight.

The same thing is now happening with surcharging. Before the government stuck their neck in, only the biggest, strongest and most monopolistic corporations would dare to surcharge, knowing full well they would be in the minority and called out in public for doing so. Hello Jetstar, Qantas, Virgin + all taxi services/Cabcharge. No though, the publicity surrounding the gevernment intervention to cap surcharging fees to the actual cost of processing has merely advertised to all businesses that surcharging is acceptable and that they should be doing it. All they've done is managed to normalise an insidious charge that used to be very rarely applied in a competitive retail environment.

God help us when the Government decide to stick their neck in and "help" consumers by regulating tipping for services! We'll become America shortly thereafter based on previous experience!

 

[Mr_Orange]

Exactly the same thing is happening with card surcharging in this country as what happened with ATM use fees when the government intervened supposedly in the customer's interests. Before ATM fees were controlled with legislation that demanded they were transparent, displayed on screen and given an option to cancel before they imposed, it was easy to find fee-free ATMs. Whether they were your own bank's or an affiliate of your bank/card brand or whatever, you could find an option that worked for no fee. After the legislation was introduced, it woke all the ATM providers up to the knowledge that they could charge for transactions and so they did - to the maximum allowed. 90% of the free options dried up overnight.

The same thing is now happening with surcharging. Before the government stuck their neck in, only the biggest, strongest and most monopolistic corporations would dare to surcharge, knowing full well they would be in the minority and called out in public for doing so. Hello Jetstar, Qantas, Virgin + all taxi services/Cabcharge. No though, the publicity surrounding the gevernment intervention to cap surcharging fees to the actual cost of processing has merely advertised to all businesses that surcharging is acceptable and that they should be doing it. All they've done is managed to normalise an insidious charge that used to be very rarely applied in a competitive retail environment.

God help us when the Government decide to stick their neck in and "help" consumers by regulating tipping for services! We'll become America shortly thereafter based on previous experience!

Well said!

 

[oz_mark]

Exactly the same thing is happening with card surcharging in this country as what happened with ATM use fees when the government intervened supposedly in the customer's interests. Before ATM fees were controlled with legislation that demanded they were transparent, displayed on screen and given an option to cancel before they imposed, it was easy to find fee-free ATMs. Whether they were your own bank's or an affiliate of your bank/card brand or whatever, you could find an option that worked for no fee. After the legislation was introduced, it woke all the ATM providers up to the knowledge that they could charge for transactions and so they did - to the maximum allowed. 90% of the free options dried up overnight.

There were ATM fees before, it's just that your 'home' bank would charge you them, possible in arrears. The big change with owner surcharges, was that they forced the banks to make them up front. The fee became visible, rather than being hidden in a statement.

(yes, there were exceptions, such as one of the NAB accounts, but most banks did in fact charge you for using a foreign ATM)

 

[Legoman]

There were ATM fees before, it's just that your 'home' bank would charge you them, possible in arrears. The big change with owner surcharges, was that they forced the banks to make them up front. The fee became visible, rather than being hidden in a statement.

There were, you're right, but they became much more universal and standardised to the maximum amount allowed under the legislation after the Government decided to stick their head in and supposedly act in the interests of consumers.

The point I'm making is that Government intervention/regulation normalises these charges. It's saying, this is a normal acceptable charge you should expect. We're going to regulate it to a certain level so it doesn't get out of hand, but we're not going to outlaw it completely, which is taken by the business as tacit approval by omission. Government intervention also creates a precendent that makes these charges valid forevermore, which is a crack that should never have been allowed to open in the first place.

The same is true of card surcharging. This is not a normal charge for the consumer to bear. The cost of processing credit card usage is the price of providing that convenience to your customers as a shop owner with the expected payoff being that you will entice more customers. The increase in customers/turnover pays for the loss in profit providing the credit card payment acceptance. That's how it was always supposed to work. It was a charge that was supposed to be invisible to the consumer - strictly between the card issuers and the merchants. If the merchants decided the cost of card acceptance exceeded the uptick in customers as a result of the convenience, then they were entitled to either negotiate a better fee rate with their payment processor to make the cost/price ratio balance out, or they could simply cease accepting cards altogether. That's what happens in a competitve, capitalist economy.

How it ever go to this ridiculous situation of the merchants passing on every little piece of the costs of doing their business one item at a time in the airline drip pricing model, I really don't know, but instead of normalising it with ever more assinine and ridiculous legislation, the government should instead just ban it outright altogether and enforce one all-inclusive price to be quoted for everything, otherwise we're going to end up like America is where the price quoted has no resemblance whatsoever to what you end up paying after the card surcharge, the compulsory valet service , state tax + compulsory tip has been added.

 

[WeeWillyWonka]

Went to Godfrey's today to buy some vacuum bags; they charge 3% for Amex, nothing for Visa/MC

Godfrey's suck (pun intended)!

 

[Legoman]

Went to Godfrey's today to buy some vacuum bags; they charge 3% for Amex, nothing for Visa/MC

Godfrey's suck (pun intended)!

They do, agreed. Next time you should buy commonly available consumables like these on eBay instead, where not only are they half the price to begin with, include free delivery to your home, but also where if you're clever and are a member of Cashrewards, you'll earn Velocity + Qantas FF points + get a small rebate through Cashrewards too and be able to pay with your QF/VA AMEX without surcharge.

 

[WeeWillyWonka]

They do, agreed. Next time you should buy commonly available consumables like these on eBay instead, where not only are they half the price to begin with, include free delivery to your home, but also where if you're clever and are a member of Cashrewards, you'll earn Velocity + Qantas FF points + get a small rebate through Cashrewards too and be able to pay with your QF/VA AMEX without surcharge.

The assumption with that approach is that you expect bags sold on eBay to be either the genuine product or, if buying a generic band, that they are reasonable quality - too often they aren't for both the former and latter.

 

[Legoman]

For a product that's ultimately destined for the rubbish bin as an integral, designed part of its functional life, I'm more than willing to take that gamble for half price and free delivery to my door! I mean, c'mon, it's a vacuum bag FFS - how much quality is seriously required?!?!

 

[WeeWillyWonka]

For a product that's ultimately destined for the rubbish bin as an integral, designed part of its functional life, I'm more than willing to take that gamble for half price and free delivery to my door! I mean, c'mon, it's a vacuum bag FFS - how much quality is seriously required?!?!

You're welcome to take that chance. It's not the bag I'm worried about; it's the expensive vacuum that it inserts into. I've seen a vacuum blow-up thanks to a shoddily-made bag.

 

[Notyourbag]

Had a bad experience at EzyMart at 58 Pitt St, Sydney today. Went to top up my Opal for $20 on AMEX. The sticker in window said it accepted American Express. The guy behind the counter told me they didn't take AMEX. I pointed to the AMEX shop small sign behind the counter. He then said he could only put the Opal transaction through if I brought something over $5 in store. I walked out.

How can I report this to AMEX?

 

[Legoman]

How can I report this to AMEX?

Go back just one page

 

[albyd]

Infinity bakery Paddington Sydney. ‘Due to excessive bank charges’ there is a 1% fee on all forms of payment including eftpos - amex not accepted.

Thought eftpos cost 10c to accept. Apparently handling cash costs nothing. Might start carrying $100 for nuisance value to maximize change required at these venues.

 

[Legoman]

Infinity bakery Paddington Sydney. ‘Due to excessive bank charges’ there is a 1% fee on all forms of payment

That's a first for me. I've never seen a business charging for accepting cash before. I wonder what consumer affairs would make of that (if anything). I thought the concept of legal tender meant there were certain assurances that your money was good and everyone had to accept it without question or financial discouragement? Otherwise trust is eroded in the currency and when that happens you get Zimbabwe and Venezuela. I don't generally like to see any busness fail (with the exception of Harvey Norman of course), but it warms the coughles of my heart when businesses behaving like this go under.

 

[albyd]

Just to clarify, they weren’t proposing a charge for accepting cash. I just think it’s short sighted to surcharge everything including eftpos (which costs bugger all to process) when not accepting Amex. Makes you want to carry more cash for the inconvenience factor to the business of having to handle it.

Bit vindictive I know but so is charging for eftpos. I bought a little more than a coffee so wasn’t a small transaction.

 

[Legoman]

Just to clarify, they weren’t proposing a charge for accepting cash. I just think it’s short sighted to surcharge everything including eftpos (which costs bugger all to process)

I think the EFTPOS processing fee in pure percentage terms is actually a lot higher than the credit card processing scheme charges are on low value transactions. I don't know the exact figures but I've heard that EFTPOS charge a flat fee of as you say, 5c, 10c, 20c whatever, whereas the credit card schemes charge on a percentage of the transaction value with perhaps a small fixed micro-fee to discourage misuse by many micro-payments where the percentage = 0 after rounding.

I think this is what's behind small retailers and convenience stores having their minimum amounts for card use of $5/$10 etc. and/or their surcharging for card use. When your income is made up entirely of lots of small value transactions, then the card fees become a significant proportion and in many cases this isn't even negated by EFTPOS as the alternative to credit card, because that fee can in percentage terms be even higher.

 

[wxxnxs]

There is one Pizza shop in Rhodes shopping centre put a big notice as: WE DO NOT ACCEPT CASH. Yap, every payment method except cash, AMEX is surely accepted. I love that shop's owner.

 

[albyd]

I think they’ve realized it’s costly and inconvenient (outside of trying to hide how much you’re earning) to accept and handle cash.

 

[foggy]

There is one Pizza shop in Rhodes shopping centre put a big notice as: WE DO NOT ACCEPT CASH. Yap, every payment method except cash, AMEX is surely accepted. I love that shop's owner.

Great way to prevent theft

 

[Daver6]

There is one Pizza shop in Rhodes shopping centre put a big notice as: WE DO NOT ACCEPT CASH. Yap, every payment method except cash, AMEX is surely accepted. I love that shop's owner.

Is that legal? I suspect note to be honest.

 

[Legoman]

Is that legal? I suspect note to be honest.

No it's not even remotely legal. Cash is legal tender which means there is a legal requirement to accept it within certain limits that a pizza shop would never get near. That said, there's probably a lot more to the story than being shared here. It wouldn't surprise me if the shop owner has been broken into or held up & threatened with violence more times than he can tolerate and the notice is his form of protest for better policing/more patrols or whatever he wants to help solve the problem. The sign is probably there in frustration and an invite for the authorities to come and question him about it, whereupon he will have a point blank shot at venting his spleen about whatever issue it is that has driven him to refuse cash.