Amex "I'm going to cancel my card" - bonus points given thread.

[Superhappykid]

Just an update, made another call saying I'm applying for another card (Not Amex) and am cancelling the Amex soon. Any retention offers. Nothing.

This time it sounded like a local bloke.

So unless they offer something only after you straight up cancel the card, looks like there isn't much hope.

 

[Waddygib]

Maybe Amex is aware that anyone that asks for a retention offer is just gaming them?

They have a pretty good idea of what each cardmember is worth, and unless you are spending six figures on (certain) travel, ATO or (some) third party payments (eg Payment Logic), you aren't going to be worth them throwing a thousand bucks of points at you.

 

[Superhappykid]

Maybe Amex is aware that anyone that asks for a retention offer is just gaming them?

They have a pretty good idea of what each cardmember is worth, and unless you are spending six figures on (certain) travel, ATO or (some) third party payments (eg Payment Logic), you aren't going to be worth them throwing a thousand bucks of points at you.

Definitely spending 6 figures on personal spend but there are people here saying they have 7 figures on business spend and still not getting anything.

But you are probably right the script they use probably has the retention offer towards the tail end of the cancellation procedure (If such an offer exists).

 

[Waddygib]

Definitely spending 6 figures on personal spend but there are people here saying they have 7 figures on business spend and still not getting anything.

But you are probably right the script they use probably has the retention offer towards the tail end of the cancellation procedure (If such an offer exists).

Even personal spend doesn't mean they want you - it depends what it is. They lose money on major retailers and Sniip, and also most small businesses. Margins on Square etc are very low. You need to spend a LOT for them to be making even $200 a year net from you, assuming you cash in all your coupons to cover the annual fee.

 

[daft009]

Definitely spending 6 figures on personal spend but there are people here saying they have 7 figures on business spend and still not getting anything.

But you are probably right the script they use probably has the retention offer towards the tail end of the cancellation procedure (If such an offer exists).

Someone putting 6 and 7 figures through is better off keeping the card without empty cancellation threats IMO.

They would be earning more in a regular month than any retention offer

 

[bits]

Even a person spending only $3000/month is enough to justify the $1450 fee:

$3000/month ($36k annual) spend = 81k points/yr = min $405 cash value (more for those getting business class flights etc)
+ $450 annual travel credit
+ $400 grandfathered reserve travel credit
+ $200 local dining credit
=$1455 value

Don't even need to count the value if the other things like $200 international dining credit; accor plus membership; priority pass membership...

Amex know most of their existing client base won't switch. There's only so many times you can say you're considering cancelling, yet the computer shows you've been a member since 20xx lol

 

[Waddygib]

Even a person spending only $3000/month is enough to justify the $1450 fee:

$3000/month ($36k annual) spend = 81k points/yr = min $405 cash value (more for those getting business class flights etc)
+ $450 annual travel credit
+ $400 grandfathered reserve travel credit
+ $200 local dining credit
=$1455 value

Don't even need to count the value if the other things like $200 international dining credit; accor plus membership; priority pass membership...

Amex know most of their existing client base won't switch. There's only so many times you can say you're considering cancelling, yet the computer shows you've been a member since 20xx lol

Not quite with you on the math. There are points earning cards with no fees (eg NAB) so you should only include the additional points you would get with Amex, which is probably about 20K. Though to your point, given the accor plus, it still pays for itself provided you travel a lot (enough to justify using Amex travel to book two flights, and stay (at least) twice at accor hotels, use the lounge access).

 

[Superhappykid]

Someone putting 6 and 7 figures through is better off keeping the card without empty cancellation threats IMO.

They would be earning more in a regular month than any retention offer

Yes I'll probably still be keeping the card in the end. Just seeing if I can squeeze anything out of it.

I did the math with other cards and I still make my money back keeping this card over any other credit card (Not including sign up bonuses).

However if you compare with Amex's own Qantas Amex Ultimate. That card is better bang for buck if you don't make use of some of the other perks the Platinum gives you.

 

[bits]

Just adding another data point - customer service said computer said no bonus offers for me this year. This time last year I got 50k just before a spate of reports of rejections started rolling in in this thread. I've also been on an apparent two year cycle with Amex in recent years (ie one year offered bonus retention points, next year no offer etc - so this year being no offer was not unexpected and in line with my recent experience).

 

[jazjaz]

Hello Everyone. I thought maybe it was a good idea to give some information about how retention offers work. Note this is mainly for personal cards. Business and corporate cards are completely different

1. As many people seem to know there are changes in law regarding offering incentives to retain customers. Because of this being offered points to stay is almost no longer a thing.
   
   
2. I was told the number of new cards activated far outweighs the cancellations, so there is little desire for American Express to offer retention incentives.
   
   
3. I believe if there is a cardholder who is genuinely unhappy and wants to close their card the latest policy is to see if a different card would be suitable. There is an internal tool that can analyse all transactions on a card and compare across different card types to see how points and so forth would be different.
   
   
4. Despite the law change there are some circumstances where points can be offered. But I cannot say those circumstances because people here will take advantage of that. But I can mention that telling the staff member you are unhappy with changes to point conversions will not get you anything.
   
   
5. If a cardholder talks to customer service the staff member will see on their screen if a retention offer is available and the number of points that can be offered. If a staff member has said there is nothing available this means the system has determined nothing can be offered. There is no way to override this and arguing or pleading with the staff member will achieve nothing.
   
   
6. I don't know how the system determines if you are eligible for retention offers exactly, however I do know it is based on a combination of factors. I can only guess but I would think that someone who uses the card extensively, takes advantage of Offers frequently and uses included benefits would be very unlikely to be offered anything. <-- This is just my speculation.
   
   
7. If you have a history of asking or receiving retention offers you are now very unlikely to be offered anything.

Thanks - Jaz.

 

[Waddygib]

On 6, it will be card member value (so not so much spending but revenue generated from that spending). A lot of management goals changed from top line spend volume and cards in force to actual revenue and profitability in the last year or two.

 

[burneracc]

Despite the law change there are some circumstances where points can be offered. But I cannot say those circumstances because people here will take advantage of that. But I can mention that telling the staff member you are unhappy with changes to point conversions will not get you anything.

can anyone who did get an offer share what they complained about?

 

[andyrb]

On 6, it will be card member value

This is my thought as well. If someone uses the card a lot they clearly aren't "unhappy" and just fishing for free points. Perhaps a downwards shift in their usage pattern would trigger an offer.

 

[tassie6]

Hello Everyone. I thought maybe it was a good idea to give some information about how retention offers work. Note this is mainly for personal cards. Business and corporate cards are completely different

1. As many people seem to know there are changes in law regarding offering incentives to retain customers. Because of this being offered points to stay is almost no longer a thing.
   
   
2. I was told the number of new cards activated far outweighs the cancellations, so there is little desire for American Express to offer retention incentives.
   
   
3. I believe if there is a cardholder who is genuinely unhappy and wants to close their card the latest policy is to see if a different card would be suitable. There is an internal tool that can analyse all transactions on a card and compare across different card types to see how points and so forth would be different.
   
   
4. Despite the law change there are some circumstances where points can be offered. But I cannot say those circumstances because people here will take advantage of that. But I can mention that telling the staff member you are unhappy with changes to point conversions will not get you anything.
   
   
5. If a cardholder talks to customer service the staff member will see on their screen if a retention offer is available and the number of points that can be offered. If a staff member has said there is nothing available this means the system has determined nothing can be offered. There is no way to override this and arguing or pleading with the staff member will achieve nothing.
   
   
6. I don't know how the system determines if you are eligible for retention offers exactly, however I do know it is based on a combination of factors. I can only guess but I would think that someone who uses the card extensively, takes advantage of Offers frequently and uses included benefits would be very unlikely to be offered anything. <-- This is just my speculation.
   
   
7. If you have a history of asking or receiving retention offers you are now very unlikely to be offered anything.

Thanks - Jaz.

What are the differences for business cards?

Thanks for the insights!

 

[lovestotravel]

I despise Amex more than ever these days, they are no better than a bank or any other credit card issuer.

I hope RBA changes screw Amex over and they lose market share as a result TBH

 

[Waddygib]

can anyone who did get an offer share what they complained about?

It will have to be Platinum only. They can't offer retention (or even try to talk you out of cancelling) for any other card (well, also gold & green charge but not many of those around).

If you aren't a valuable customer (from revenue/profit point of view, NOT how much you spend) then you probably have buckleys anyway.

However, the complaints that will hit home will be things like benefits not being worthwhile to you (live in western sydney so no restaurants you can use dining credit at; Amex lounge always too crowded etc). Or, if you want to hit them where it hurts, have a dig at them throwing Mardi Gras to the side this year, and all the cardmember events that went with it. Especially given it was 100% driven by Trumpism and the associated homophobia.

 

[burneracc]

I despise Amex more than ever these days, they are no better than a bank or any other credit card issuer.

I hope RBA changes screw Amex over and they lose market share as a result TBH

Hard disagree, they are a 1 of 1 company, no other provider comes close to their offerings. Obviously they aren’t a bank, but if you can find a better credit issuer let me know, as in my book there is no alternative.

 

[lovestotravel]

Hard disagree, they are a 1 of 1 company, no other provider comes close to their offerings. Obviously they aren’t a bank, but if you can find a better credit issuer let me know, as in my book there is no alternative.

I used to love them, but every year is another enhancement, and not offering retention points is a PITA. The +1 will need to apply, using my referral and then receive 225K points with a $5K spend in 3 months..

I would be tempted to cancel my card at this time.

The RBA changes will probably mean more enhancements to earn rates in the future as well

 

[Happy Dude]

If you aren't a valuable customer (from revenue/profit point of view, NOT how much you spend) then you probably have buckleys anyway.

How is it that a big spender isn't profitable for Amex? The cost of points/rewards/cashback comes out of the revenue/profit. Who is it they want?

 

[Waddygib]

How is it that a big spender isn't profitable for Amex? The cost of points/rewards/cashback comes out of the revenue/profit. Who is it they want?

Because the cost of points is, at best, only slightly lower than revenue. A lot of the time it is higher.

For example, the biggest retailers in Austalia have considerable sway over Amex so the likes of Coles, Woolworths, Bunnings only pay about .5% in merchant fees. On a platinum card, earning 2.25 points per dollar, the cost of points alone is about 1.1% (depending how they get redeemed). Then there is the cost of advancing the funds for a month.

Or take Sniip; if you are paying Sniip 1.5% (including GST), then the amount Amex is charging Sniip is going to be closer to 1.1 or 1.2%. Again, not profitable spend.

Most small merchants get sweetheart rates, too. And what's left over the rate is probably about 1.5%.

The most profitable customers are those that are spending at ATO (as there are fewer reward points) or some higher discount rate merchants (there are still some that exist in the travel space, for instance). Also those that make use of the few other sources of revenue (such as booking through Amex Travel).

Business spend tends to be more profitable, as the rate for Payment Logic etc is higher. However, there is concern that regulators will not be happy if Amex knowingly allows lots of business spend through a personal card, hence the push to get people switched over to a business card. The business cards also can charge interest for revolving (which consumer charge can't do).

So who are the profitable customers? Credit cards (only if they revolve and generate interest revenue), Platinum who spend either a lot on travel/dining OR business spend OR don't use all the coupons/lounge access.