Amex "I'm going to cancel my card" - bonus points given thread.

[flyguy77]

Also saw someone got 280k for complaining about Accor changes here

For all we know they are putting millions & millions in yearly spend through their Amex Card.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[doctorstrangelove]

Just tried my luck - my annual fee posted end September. Asked whether fee was refundable (yes, until end October) and then said I wished to cancel due to 1) devaluation of MR points and 2) loss of Amazon benefit. Amex staff was in complete agreement with me that the card had taken a substantial hit in terms of value and I asked him whether there were any redemption offers open to me to stay on. He said he'd have a look and see but unfortunately no go.

What's so frustrating about this for me is that I canceled my BA Avios subscription (that was taken out at the initial offering price it will cost more if I want to rejoin) in April because I thought I'll be earning Avios at a decent rate on my AMEX and therefore wouldn't need the sub anymore.

 

[Lachlan Terri]

I rang up as annual fee posted in my platinum account and complained about the points devaluation and the ending of the Amazon prime to see if I could get anything. Spend around $60k a year on the platinum card but was told because of governmental changes they cannot offer anyone retention bonuses anymore and that the only option for me is to downgrade the card if I am not happy with the platinum card. Do we know if this is accurate?

 

[Waddygib]

I rang up as annual fee posted in my platinum account and complained about the points devaluation and the ending of the Amazon prime to see if I could get anything. Spend around $60k a year on the platinum card but was told because of governmental changes they cannot offer anyone retention bonuses anymore and that the only option for me is to downgrade the card if I am not happy with the platinum card. Do we know if this is accurate?

No idea, but what is accurate is that on your spend they would be making a profit of next to nothing; so giving you points to retain doesn't sound like a profitable strategy for them.

 

[MooTime]

No idea, but what is accurate is that on your spend they would be making a profit of next to nothing; so giving you points to retain doesn't sound like a profitable strategy for them.

Next to no profit on $60k spend.....
I'd say that's about somewhere near average so must be some sorta profit on that spend for the CC companies.

 

[Waddygib]

Next to no profit on $60k spend.....
I'd say that's about somewhere near average so must be some sorta profit on that spend for the CC companies.

Not much profit in cards unless folks revolve, don't earn reward points, or spend heavily at the rare merchants where discount rates are above 1.5% (for Amex, that would be the likes of payment logic).

You do the math on the standard surcharge you pay......that is Amex revenue. Deduct the cost of points on a platinum card (call it 1.125%, but probably more depending how you use it). Deduct the cost of floating you the money for up to 50 days. Deduct any fees going to Tyro or Square or whoever. Then there are overheads. It isn't a very profitable business. The only way Platinum could make money would be if people didn't use the travel credits or lounge access.

 

[burneracc]

It isn't a very profitable business.

I was curious after hearing this so I did some digging into their most recent 10q. It’s pretty interesting stuff.

In their last quarter they reported net non-interest revenue of ~$13.7b and incurred ~$4.6b in “card member rewards” costs. Their biggest expense is by far these rewards costs, as the next biggest expense was employee salaries at ~$2.1b.

That revenue was off of $471b in processed transaction volume. Based off of revenue AND excluding annual fees, we can ballpark their merchant fee at around 1.9%.
https://s26.q4cdn.com/747928648/fil...5/q2/af2281cc-70be-4ae4-bfb3-a36ff373ba59.pdf

 

[RAM]

I was curious after hearing this so I did some digging into their most recent 10q. It’s pretty interesting stuff.

In their last quarter they reported net non-interest revenue of ~$13.7b and incurred ~$4.6b in “card member rewards” costs. Their biggest expense is by far these rewards costs, as the next biggest expense was employee salaries at ~$2.1b.

That revenue was off of $471b in processed transaction volume. Based off of revenue AND excluding annual fees, we can ballpark their merchant fee at around 1.9%.
https://s26.q4cdn.com/747928648/fil...5/q2/af2281cc-70be-4ae4-bfb3-a36ff373ba59.pdf

Hard to believe they're charging that high a merchant fee with high volume retailers etc.

Perhaps not in Australia as the likes of Coles, Qantas etc have too much market power. Similarly, when they've been pushing to expand their footprint (from 2015 to 2018 IIRC) they were offering 0.9% to small cafes/restaurants.

 

[Waddygib]

That's global though; Merchant rates in Australia is much lower. There would be very few on 1.9%, and the really big ones (supermarkets etc) would be well below 1%.

Amex Australia annual report is actually public but behind ASIC paywall. That would be a better document to read I think.

 

[cambriamarsh]

That's global though; Merchant rates in Australia is much lower. There would be very few on 1.9%, and the really big ones (supermarkets etc) would be well below 1%.

Amex Australia annual report is actually public but behind ASIC paywall. That would be a better document to read I think.

Anecdotally NZ is 2% plus for Amex. They seem to be losing outlets here.

 

[Waddygib]

New Zealand had discount revenue of $45 million and rewards expense of $17 million. But that might look better than it is because they probably over index on spend from non-NZ folks, I think Amex NZ would get some revenue from that but the rewards expense would sit with the Amex unit that issued the card (say, US).

(Source: financials are public in NZ, for free, unlike in Australia)