Airport noise discussion

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Anyone here good at working out noise associated with flight paths? Looking at a house in Holland Park in Brisbane. It states arrival flight path descending towards 2100 ft when you look up address. How noisy would that be inside? From what I can work out it is the old runway which is used in summer more. More concerned about overnight noise. Thanks
 
Anyone here good at working out noise associated with flight paths? Looking at a house in Holland Park in Brisbane. It states arrival flight path descending towards 2100 ft when you look up address. How noisy would that be inside? From what I can work out it is the old runway which is used in summer more. More concerned about overnight noise. Thanks
As part of the approvals for the new runway, Brisbane Airport prepared a noise study which you can find here. Page 21 has the Australian Noise Exposure Forecast (ANEF) Chart and data on what they expect (through models), the noise impact to be on the ground. I'm not sure where Holland Park is, but that might be a good start point.
 
Anyone here good at working out noise associated with flight paths? Looking at a house in Holland Park in Brisbane. It states arrival flight path descending towards 2100 ft when you look up address. How noisy would that be inside? From what I can work out it is the old runway which is used in summer more. More concerned about overnight noise.

Sensitivity to noise is only something you can work out. But, you're at 7nm and not far from the centreline, so the aircraft would certainly pass close to overhead if using the right runway. The height would be pretty well exactly 2,100'.
 
Anyone here good at working out noise associated with flight paths? Looking at a house in Holland Park in Brisbane. It states arrival flight path descending towards 2100 ft when you look up address. How noisy would that be inside? From what I can work out it is the old runway which is used in summer more. More concerned about overnight noise. Thanks
I have a relative at Morningside. Which is closer to YBBN than Holland Park and basically on the centre line.

It’s very noticeable there. Not so loud that conversation has to stop. But you know you’re close.

As jb747 has pointed out it’s a personal thing.
 
As jb747 has pointed out it’s a personal thing.
We have lived on the RAAF Base at Fairbairn (Canberra) and we currently live very near the initial point for runway 09 at ESL. ie we are familiar with a/c noise.

In Canberra we had lots of RPT and currently we get the occasional heavy but mostly PC-21s, Kingairs and rescue helicopters. A few free Roulette displays make up for any inconvenience caused in our current location.

The reality is that the noise is as much of a problem as you think it is.
 
The reality is that the noise is as much of a problem as you think it is.
I grew up in the early 60's living in railway staff housing (my dad worked for the railways) right next to the main trunk line in New Zealand. In those days it was the huge steam locomotives belching steam and black smoke and very very loud. I can now sleep through anything. You get used to noise and just don't notice it.
 
Anyone here good at working out noise associated with flight paths? Looking at a house in Holland Park in Brisbane. It states arrival flight path descending towards 2100 ft when you look up address. How noisy would that be inside? From what I can work out it is the old runway which is used in summer more. More concerned about overnight noise. Thanks
Also check out runway19 departures, (to the south for holand park, I cop the north departures). I've been impacted by the new flight paths...and I'm not even on the noise impact map as aircraft are above 5000ft but seem to be on takeoff power meeting altitude requirements, and that's noisy enougt to wake me up at 1:00am and 4:00am 50% of nights here. BNE doesn't have a curfew and I suspect that the nosiest aircraft (international heavies) won't accept the "preferred" over the bay departures if there is any downwind (hence 50% time). It is indeed a personal thing...at 1 and 4 am. In sydney I live under the arrival path on the upper north shore but don't complain, have no right to really, as there is a curfew and the runway was ther before me (unlike Brisbane's NEW runway and procedures).
 
@I love to travel I'm an acoustical consultant and regularly do such projects.

I'd look at the BNE website as they may have a noise calculator. Or perhaps download a copy of the Masterplan and the Noise chapter may have some maps showing "maximum" type noise curves (N60, N70 etc). Ignore the ANEF curves as they are not going to be of use to you here (interesting though!).

If not, you can get hold of a copy of AS2021, and use google earth to help establish a noise level at your property. It depends on the aircraft type (you'll need to know what flies at night) and your property location relative to the runways. The differences in elevation comes into it too.

All of this will give you a number (ie noise level) outside your house. As a rule of thumb, take 20dB off that number for open windows (or, say, 10dB or 15dB if you live in a house with large or many windows). If that number is more than 50dB, then theoretically your house doesn't meet the standard recommended in AS2021 for bedrooms. Don't worry though AS2021 is a planning tool to provide constructions required to meet the standard.

If you're worried about the noise indoors at night, sleep with the windows closed, in which case the inside level would be about 30dB lower than the outside level.

For reference and generally speaking (we're all different after all), 50 dBA inside a bedroom at night, occurring a few times a night for a short time (eg a flyover) would not be expected to disrupt sleep. Google up a "noise thermometer" which may help you get a feel for equivalent sound levels from other sources. One's tolerance for noise is affected by the character, duration, frequency and expectation of the noise. For eg, a relatively low level noise can be really annoying if you're not expecting it (I'm looking at you Mr Unwrap your lollies in the cinema!).
 
In our early life we lived first at Stanmore.The planes literaly fkew past our window.
Then moved to Annandale but basically the same flight path.
Then moved to Concord West on Concord Road.Heavy traffic all night.
Then moved to Maitland and couldn't sleep because it was too quiet.
 
We have lived on the RAAF Base at Fairbairn (Canberra) and we currently live very near the initial point for runway 09 at ESL. ie we are familiar with a/c noise.

In Canberra we had lots of RPT and currently we get the occasional heavy but mostly PC-21s, Kingairs and rescue helicopters. A few free Roulette displays make up for any inconvenience caused in our current location.

The reality is that the noise is as much of a problem as you think it is.
Reminds me of when I lived and worked at RAAF WLM in the days of Mirage. I used to call Mr Seat 0B for a chat every now and then when we were dating. We worked in separate hangars at opposite ends of the taxi ways parallel to the runway. When Mirage took off in pairs, or worse, Form 4s, the conversation would be like “ hi how is your day (pause for takeoff roar) going today?” “it’s going (pause for take off roar) great thanks.” It became so ingrained that people on the base just held all their conversations that way. Sleeping in the living in accommodation during night flying was not really possible.

We also lived on base at ESL in the late 1980s and by comparison the noise of HS 748s, Macchi roulettes and then PC9 roulettes was very minor.
 
Anyone here good at working out noise associated with flight paths? Looking at a house in Holland Park in Brisbane. It states arrival flight path descending towards 2100 ft when you look up address. How noisy would that be inside? From what I can work out it is the old runway which is used in summer more. More concerned about overnight noise. Thanks
The arrivals and departures to the original runway have effectively not changed, so you could ask your prospective neighbours what they thought of the noise. Arrivals by 10 pm at night have to be on centreline of the runway before descending below 3000’, which puts them at around 10 nautical miles (about 18 km) from runway threshold. Departures after 10 pm heading south are rare (original runway used for arrivals or departures to/from south or east).
 
Also check out runway19 departures, (to the south for holand park, I cop the north departures). I've been impacted by the new flight paths...and I'm not even on the noise impact map as aircraft are above 5000ft but seem to be on takeoff power meeting altitude requirements, and that's noisy enougt to wake me up at 1:00am and 4:00am 50% of nights here. BNE doesn't have a curfew and I suspect that the nosiest aircraft (international heavies) won't accept the "preferred" over the bay departures if there is any downwind (hence 50% time). It is indeed a personal thing...at 1 and 4 am. In sydney I live under the arrival path on the upper north shore but don't complain, have no right to really, as there is a curfew and the runway was ther before me (unlike Brisbane's NEW runway and procedures).
Can’t nominate a runway with more than 5 knots tailwind, it’s illegal to do so (written regulations that also nominate the penalties for breaking them). Sydney’s exception is also written in the regulations. The majority of international heavies will take the nominated runway i.e. they will take up 5 knots of tailwind on the duty runway. Cathay heavies would ask for runway 01 with up to 10 knots of tailwind when 19 was the nominated runway, I’m guessing cause it was a much shorter taxi and they were heading north.
 
In our early life we lived first at Stanmore.The planes literaly fkew past our window.
Then moved to Annandale but basically the same flight path.

I’m here right now, and this year has been oddly quiet.
As you said, you get used to it. Annoying sometimes, but the benefits of living in the inner city outweigh the negatives
 
How’s this for a technical assessment? Park your car out the front and sleep the night with the windows up! :p
 
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Reminds me of when I lived and worked at RAAF WLM in the days of Mirage. .....

We also lived on base at ESL in the late 1980s and by comparison the noise of HS 748s, Macchi roulettes and then PC9 roulettes was very minor.
No supersonic flow in the exhaust from a Macchi. And the 748 was called a dog whistle for good reason.
Can’t nominate a runway with more than 5 knots tailwind, it’s illegal to do so (written regulations that also nominate the penalties for breaking them). Sydney’s exception is also written in the regulations. The majority of international heavies will take the nominated runway i.e. they will take up 5 knots of tailwind on the duty runway. Cathay heavies would ask for runway 01 with up to 10 knots of tailwind when 19 was the nominated runway, I’m guessing cause it was a much shorter taxi and they were heading north.
Runway behaviour with tailwinds is interesting. Firstly they are bloody easy to get wrong, so there are real safety implications.

From the rules point of view, taking off, you can only consider 50% of a headwind, but you have to consider 150% of a tailwind.

Different aircraft can behave quite differently too. On one occasion I recall taking the 380 from 25L in LA with about 8 knots of tailwind, whilst Virgin's 777 had to go to the other end and use 07L. We still had a derate.
I’m here right now, and this year has been oddly quiet.
As you said, you get used to it. Annoying sometimes, but the benefits of living in the inner city outweigh the negatives
If things ever go back to anything like normal, the complaints will be legendary.
 
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