Air traffic controllers

[oz_mark]

From the Qantas major disruptions pages:

Answer

We are aware of the outcome of the ballot announced on 12 February 2009 by the air traffic controller's union.

At this stage it is not known what action the union proposes to take, however, the earliest any action can commence is 24 February 2009.

We are monitoring the situation closely. When we do know what the action involves, we will announce our plans. Everything will be done to reduce any impact on your travel. If flight changes do occur, we will contact you as soon as possible to discuss suitable alternatives.

Anyone else aware?

 

[Mal]

Well hopefully they won't schedule buses in place of the flights!

 

[Kendall Roy]

Is this a national thing or just Sydney?

 

[laffer]

I am at Syd Airport now.

Delays are starting to come through as a result of air traffic issues. It seems to be mainly hitting Jetstar Services from T2.

Fin Review were reporting today that the ballot had been successful but that the Union had suspended the action to allow talks to occur.

Good luck to them.

 

[NM]

Is this a national thing or just Sydney?

I believe they have left it open to be able to be applied anywhere in Australia. It only takes one major ATC location to disrupt the entire air travel environment for the country.

 

[Flashback]

I have absolutely no problem if my flight is delayed tomorrow, which would increase my FLounge time

 

[markis10]

Damn Air Traffic Controllers sitting in their ivory towers causing us common folk hassles .

Not the first time there has been a shortage and not the last, happened to see check on the Melbourne training college where I did my ATC course on the weekend to see that its now apartments. It takes up to 5 years for training to be done if you include the experience prerequiste in the real world and each test requires a pass rate of 80% or more resulting in a high failure rate, there really needs to be better organisation and planning done by the public service and elected reps to solve this problem fiunally.

 

[docjames]

Presumably the dispute is over pay and conditions?

Can anyone elaborate (ie. what the offer has been / what's been the tradeoff).


It seems hard to be asking for significant pay increases when theres GFC and airlines will be battling.

 

[markis10]

Presumably the dispute is over pay and conditions?

Can anyone elaborate (ie. what the offer has been / what's been the tradeoff).


It seems hard to be asking for significant pay increases when theres GFC and airlines will be battling.

Plenty of info here without press dilution/filter: Civil Air Australia - Home

Ballot Results
YES: 94.4% (701 Votes) NO: 5.6% (42 Votes)
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]54 days since ATC Certified Agreement Expired
165 days since CEO promised to have ATC staff shortages fixed
298 days since 'Good Faith' Negotiations Commenced
409 days since Air Traffic Controllers received a payrise
1305 days since Greg Russell Appointed as CEO​

[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]Why are you asking for a 63% salary increase?[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva](Updated 14.8.08)[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]At present we are desperately short of controllers. Civil Air is asking for a training salary that attracts high quality applicants. The 63% you have read about in the papers does not apply to any qualified controllers. We are not asking for ourselves. Trainee controllers are currently offered $35 044 per annum. Successful candidates must meet stringent intellectual, aptitude, medical and psychological standards. They should have some experience in the workforce and a tertiary qualification is highly desirable. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]They will then be expected to commence training in Melbourne (relocations costs are not met) and other locations for up to 2 years. Approximately 1 in 2 will eventually qualify and will be subject to a significant financial bond for the first 5 years of employment.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]The simple fact of the matter is that people meeting all of the requirements and willing to take the chance are fairly rare. The quality and size of the pool is reduced somewhat as the offer is simply not attractive enough. In real terms the training salary we are seeking is roughly equivalent to the start up salary for a newly qualified IT technician. With a higher starting salary of $52500 we may be able to attract people who would otherwise seek employment elsewhere. If we have high quality applicants we may even be able to improve success rates and save money overall.[/FONT]

I would have to agree with the above details from personal experience, 15000 people applied for my course (1 of three being run), 90 in total got on the three courses which were short term courses for those that had significant prior aviation experience. A year later 21 people were licenced junior controllers, two years later that number was down to 15 from memory owing to work pressures etc. Thats 15 people that can be used as ATC's from an initial 15K of applicants and 90 trainees!

 

[docjames]

Which suggests there's been massive underfunding of training (90/15000!!! There MUST have been >90 appropriate candidates out of 15000!)

I'm not sure burning the traveling public and the airlines is a great way to get their message across.


I'll certainly be royally p155ed off if my travel gets mucked up again by "ATC delays". I can understand why, but there's got to be a better negotiation tool.

 

[markis10]

I'm not sure burning the traveling public and the airlines is a great way to get their message across.


I'll certainly be royally p155ed off if my travel gets mucked up again by "ATC delays". I can understand why, but there's got to be a better negotiation tool.

Note that the delays are not industrial action but safety measures, that is they are making sure the workload stays appropriate for a single ATC doing the job normally done by 2 ATC staffers!

 

[JohnK]

I'm not sure burning the traveling public and the airlines is a great way to get their message across.

They certainly would not be getting any sympathy from me if their actions meant that I could not get home to SYD or return to work in BNE.

Any further news?

 

[possumoz]

Which suggests there's been massive underfunding of training (90/15000!!! There MUST have been >90 appropriate candidates out of 15000!)

I'm not sure burning the traveling public and the airlines is a great way to get their message across.


I'll certainly be royally p155ed off if my travel gets mucked up again by "ATC delays". I can understand why, but there's got to be a better negotiation tool.

If the ATC problem is in fact or has a real possibility of impacting on passenger safety perhaps its time for the travelling public to start doing something about it. I'm as guilty as anyone as when there's a delay to my flights (usually BNE/SYD route) I have a nice grumble and mumble over a G&T in the lounge.
I ALMOST feel sorry for the airlines.....

 

[medhead]

I'll certainly be royally p155ed off if my travel gets mucked up again by "ATC delays". I can understand why, but there's got to be a better negotiation tool.

well they could just go on trying to do the job of 2 people until there is a major accident involving 2 or more aircraft. That'd certainly get attention. Of course, the ATC involved in the accident is going to be tainted and lose his career. A few hundred families are not going to be happy.

Well I'm not serious. The only option available to the worker is withdrawal of labour. At least in this case there seems to be legitimate safety concerns involved.

And don't get me started on funding of the public service across the whole country. Stupid half wit politicians seem to think it's all about cutting money, they just don't get the productivity side of the equation at all.

 

[Expon]

I'll certainly be royally p155ed off if my travel gets mucked up again by "ATC delays".

Then again there is ATC delays due to staff shortage and ATC delays due to safety. Yes, its all safety related but when its peak time and every aircraft wants to land in Sydney at the same time and ATC slow some of them down into an orderly flow, there is going to be delays. Airlines love to jump on this one as ATC delay but there is no way of avoiding this no matter how many staff you have. Well unless you build more runways!

I think my flights have been delayed more by weather or airline inefficiency rather than ATC over the years, but I do agree with you, I would hate to have my holiday ruined by ATC delay causing me to miss connecting flights in other countries that have their ATC systems under control.

Hopefully we will know more in the next few days, its been all quiet for a while.