Air Traffic Control Issues

[kamchatsky]

Is it me or is it becoming more common that there is a lack of ATCs in Australia? Delays due to insufficient ATCs seems to become more common. Second day of delays.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/sydney-airport-plunged-into-chaos-by-lack-of-air-traffic-controllers/news-story/6eeac3f5c6927090b1ab4626b87df38c

Should SYD reduce their capacity until lack of ATC issue is resolved?

I wonder when WSI opens what would happen? I know WSI operates differently (no control tower) but do they still need ATCs? If so, it would make it even worse....

 

[LionKing]

Is it me or is it becoming more common that there is a lack of ATCs in Australia? Delays due to insufficient ATCs seems to become more common. Second day of delays.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/sydney-airport-plunged-into-chaos-by-lack-of-air-traffic-controllers/news-story/6eeac3f5c6927090b1ab4626b87df38c

Should SYD reduce their capacity until lack of ATC issue is resolved?

I wonder when WSI opens what would happen? I know WSI operates differently (no control tower) but do they still need ATCs? If so, it would make it even worse....

Absolutely not.
The Australian Government should immediately hire foreign air traffic controllers to resolve the ATC issues.
Simply reduce the capacity will only make Sydneysiders unable to go overseas and trapped in Sydney and become unhappy.

 

[markis10]

Absolutely not.
The Australian Government should immediately hire foreign air traffic controllers to resolve the ATC issues.
Simply reduce the capacity will only make Sydneysiders unable to go overseas and trapped in Sydney and become unhappy.

Stupid solution, it takes at least three months to get foreign hires rated for a position, and a 50-90% failure rate. Airservices has a 40 year history of drought and deluge when it comes to staff, nothings changed. BTW WSI is open and under ATC control.

Wondering what the issue is, on 8 July 2021, Airservices confirmed that the ATO had approved a Retirement Incentive Scheme (RIS) for employees aged between 56 and 65 employed on the ATC and Supporting Services and ALM Enterprise Agreements. Between October 2021 and June 2022, over 140 ATCs and crucial supporting staff will depart Airservices under the RIS – many of whom are retiring years earlier than anticipated and planned for.

Hmm, who decided that? Those early retirees normally spend their last years training new controllers, passing on their experience, with them gone we have to send trainees to NZ now.

Home

Civil Air is the association advocating for the professional, technical and industrial needs of Australian Air Traffic Controllers and Air Traffic Control Support Staff

www.civilair.asn.au

 

[Quickstatus]

Known for several years due in part to:

A $58 million AirServices Australia Retirements Incentive Scheme which incentivised a lot of senior ATC between the ages of 56 and 65 to retire early during the pandemic. Over 140 took up the offer not including other exits. Total 184 departed during Covid.
AirServices Australia Executive Management came up with that idea in July 2021 to reduce costs (likely encouraged by the Minister)
. It hoped to train new staff while the flying tempo was low. Unfortunately there was also a training backlog during the pandemic due to travel restrictions.
Then, with the resurgence of flying, a shortage resulted. This shortage prevented ATC from being utilised to train newcomers because they were needed in their operational environment which further exacerbated the training backlog.

There are also regulatory limitations on ATC rosters. An ATC is usually certified for specific airports and it cant be assumed that if there is a shortage at one airport that controllers can be pulled from other areas. Working hours are also regulated to prevent fatigue, though with the shortage, ATC has been doing significant overtime within the regulatory limits.
Overtime can increase burnout/fatigue and is often associated with unplanned sick leave. This compounds the issues as this increases the workload on the remaining ATC.

As a result of Friday and Saturday Sickies, Airservices Australia implemented an Air Traffic Flow Management measures at SYD which included increasing spacing between departing aircraft - reducing the airport's hourly capacity.

The Australian Government should immediately hire foreign air traffic controllers to resolve the ATC issues.

From where? - note they need a level 6 english proficiency - this is near native or native proficiency level - basically an expert in the English language.
Note that a minimum Level 4 is required to have a pilot's license.

ATC is also not like driving a car.
You realise that not only do they need their license recognised, but they also need to be endorsed for each facility.
So a SYD ATC cannot just pick up a shift at MEL airport - they would need to undertake months of further training, including further tests before thay can be endorsed.
Imagine if your drivers license is geographically restricted. If a Sydney driver wants to drive in Melbourne, they would have to undertake several driving lessons, do a written and practical driving test before they can be endorsed in Melbourne.

And who are going to train them? The Current ATC are already flat out in the airports they work at.

AELP Level 6:

 

[Quickstatus]

The Australian Government should immediately hire foreign air traffic controllers to resolve the ATC issues.

From where?
It takes a long time to train an ATC - it is not like driving a car.

 

[LionKing]

From where?
It takes a long time to train an ATC - it is not like driving a car.

Asia and Pacific to start with.
I am sure Australian Citizenship is something that most Asians admire and we should leverage the Australian Citizenship advantage to empty their air traffic control room so to fill ours.
I always believe that by hiring foreigners on visa, reliability of work output would significantly increase due to their fear of losing the Australian visa.
It will take time to train them, but we can also fast track training, so that even we are facing short term pain, we will ensure long term gain.

 

[Forg]

From where?
It takes a long time to train an ATC - it is not like driving a car.

Can we just assume they know how to control air traffic, just like we assume they know how to drive a car?
Seems to be a fine approach for driving a car!

 

[LionKing]

From where?
It takes a long time to train an ATC - it is not like driving a car.

You realise that not only do they need their license recognised, but they also need to be endorsed for each facility.
So a SYD ATC cannot just pick up a shift at MEL airport - they would need to undertake months of further training, including further tests before thay can be endorsed.

And who are going to train them? The Current ATC are already flat out in the airports they work at.

I understand this is location specific, however I wonder whether we can fast track training trainers to train them efficiently?
Me as a teacher myself are always teaching something I don't know, and I am sure a good teacher/educator can be able to pick up anything to train others to a certain standard if you can pay good money.

 

[markis10]

To give you an idea on how hard it is to get ATCs, for my intake 18000 applied for 36 positions, the course took 12 months of theory and on the job training. That course was a short term course as I had prior aviation experience. 10 got licensed at the end. My licence was N596 in 1986 which means I was the 596th person in NSW to graduate.

 

[LionKing]

To give you an idea on how hard it is to get ATCs, for my intake 18000 applied for 36 positions, the course took 12 months of theory and on the job training. That course was a short term course as I had prior aviation experience. 10 got licensed at the end. My licence was N596 in 1986 which means I was the 596th person in NSW to graduate.

Can we make it easier to be licensed?
Or simply re test the failed ones to fill those gaps?
Obviously if 18000 is applied we could have more licensed?

 

[markis10]

Can we make it easier to be licensed?
Or simply re test the failed ones to fill those gaps?
Obviously if 18000 is applied we could have more licensed?

You mean drop the standard at the risk of safety, would you be happy in a plane under the watch of an ATC that didn’t quite make the grade?

 

[Forg]

Can we make it easier to be licensed?
Or simply re test the failed ones to fill those gaps?
Obviously if 18000 is applied we could have more licensed?

Do we even want lesser-quality people in that role, even though we know the problem with not having enough people?

And is it going to get worse as WSI ramps up?

 

[LionKing]

You mean drop the standard at the risk of safety, would you be happy in a plane under the watch of an ATC that didn’t quite make the grade?

I always wonder if Australia standards can be slightly lowered to meet with some other countries, and provide more opportunities for those who almost make the grade to come in?

I think sometimes people failed exams because of bad luck. Even universities are giving them second chances these days.

 

[LionKing]

Do we even want lesser-quality people in that role, even though we know the problem with not having enough people?

And is it going to get worse as WSI ramps up?

I would want lesser quality people.
I prefer speed and on time performance over safety. Pilots judgement can make up for safety shortfalls.

 

[Quickstatus]

Can we just assume they know how to control air traffic

Luckily AirServices Australia does not assume.

Asia and Pacific to start with.

How is their AELP English level going to stack up to Level 6 which is the highest.

teaching something I don't know,

Are you saying someone who is non ATC can teach ATC?

Can we make it easier to be licensed?
Or simply re test the failed ones to fill those gaps?
Obviously if 18000 is applied we could have more licensed?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster

ATC requires much more than just memorising or learning a book or facts.
They require a unique set of skills that are not easily taught
They usually have an aptitude for very high cognitive abilities - spatial/3d awareness, mental reasoning. multitasking, memory and recall.
I think cognitively they are ahead of most, if not all of the high cognitive requirement professions - even Drs.

 

[moa999]

I'd assume WSI ATC is fully staffed up, even if its mostly handling night flights.

Could the staff there take over some of the secondary SYD duties.

 

[dajop]

Is it just me and my general distrust of lots of comments sections, or is there some serious trolling going on in this thread?

 

[Forg]

I would want lesser quality people.
I prefer speed and on time performance over safety. Pilots judgement can make up for safety shortfalls.

Pilots can’t see what an ATC sees though!

I’ve worked with people from overseas who’ve very obviously paid for their qualifications rather than studied & learned for them. I don’t want those people pranging A330’s into B787’s over my house!

Are you being cynically ironic?

 

[LionKing]

Pilots can’t see what an ATC sees though!

I’ve worked with people from overseas who’ve very obviously paid for their qualifications rather than studied & learned for them. I don’t want those people pranging A330’s into B787’s over my house!

Are you being cynically ironic?

I am not trying to be difficult, however having ATC people calling sick and disrupting planes is not acceptable.

If we reduce flight capacity for that it means we are surrendering to the power of ATC as the whole city.

We need a swift but safe solution to make sure there are enough replacement ATCs to fill in the gap.

That's all.

 

[henrus]

I'd assume WSI ATC is fully staffed up, even if its mostly handling night flights.

WSI currently doesn't operate on weekends. It's also got no ATC onsite instead all digital based with a remote ATC 17km away.