Air India B787 crash Ahmedabad

[Saab34]

I reckon even after the final report you will still have people on PPrune saying ‘they pulled the flaps instead of the gear’

 

[markis10]

India’s Minister of State for Civil Aviation Murlidhar Mohol has today been quoted as saying the report will be out in three months

 

[DC3]

India’s Minister of State for Civil Aviation Murlidhar Mohol has today been quoted as saying the report will be out in three months

 

[oz_mark]

India’s Minister of State for Civil Aviation Murlidhar Mohol has today been quoted as saying the report will be out in three months

I believe he referred to the "preliminary report".

 

[kelvedon]

An article just published discussing the production issues in early 787’s

How safe is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, really?

Long before the Air India tragedy, the cause of which is still to be determined, people who had worked on the 787 had raised concerns about the production standards

www.bbc.com

 

[Saab34]

I remember going on the Boeing tour in Seattle in the early 2010s and seeing all the parked Air India 787s over near the visitor centre with engine weights on them. They sat over that way for years.

 

[elanshin]

An article just published discussing the production issues in early 787’s

How safe is the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, really?

Long before the Air India tragedy, the cause of which is still to be determined, people who had worked on the 787 had raised concerns about the production standards

www.bbc.com

Don't think anything new really here but a good reminder for all the issues that has plagued the 787 program.

 

[jenib]

No idea how legit this guy is but he is pretty engaged on the issue.

 

[RSD]

No idea how legit this guy is but he is pretty engaged on the issue.

I've got it open in a tab on my laptop ready to watch once I finish some spreadsheet stuff.

JB747 and I have both been thinking that software is a real possibility for this one...

 

[RSD]

No idea how legit this guy is but he is pretty engaged on the issue.

Not a lot really new in that video, but I'm kind of feeling that a sensor has falsely detected that the aircraft is on the ground and that false signal has then triggered something in the software to reduce the engines to idle - sort of a cause and effect thing. It sounds like the 787 is so electrical and electronic that it is an incredibly complex beast - and the Air India 787 became Hal.

 

[jb747]

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

Assuming the engines have shut down, which seems reasonable given the outcome, and what can be seen and heard, then you’re left with a Sherlock Holmes problem. Engines are reliable, and they’re unlikely to be shut down by the pilots, or wayward birds. The problem seems to start just after rotate. Does something happen, or change, there? This is not a 737. The engines are huge, and will almost certainly just eat most birds. And, even if they didn’t, symmetrical failure without some compressor stalling makes no sense. Software is an unknown, and keeps becoming more powerful, and pervasive. How deeply is it even possible to test it?

 

[Rabs97]

No idea how legit this guy is but he is pretty engaged on the issue.

He seems to get his info from chatGPT, internet comments sections and some mainstream media articles referencing a long retired lawyer who wants to pin this on Boeing. Puts all the points he selects in the video to drive the conclusion to CONSPIRACY!!!

Just being a random pilot with a YouTube channel doesn’t make him an expert. It makes him a YouTuber who needs clicks for ad revenue

The recorder data will be available soon, be patient.

 

[oz_mark]

The recorder data will be available soon, be patient.

Certainly need to get this to find out what the sequence of events was, and what happened to the jets (shutdown, idling, something else, and when). That will start to rule out some things (and probably introduce its own sets of questions)

 

[jb747]

......referencing a long retired lawyer who wants to pin this on Boeing.

Not an expert on aviation, but not just any lawyer either.

 

[RSD]

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

Assuming the engines have shut down, which seems reasonable given the outcome, and what can be seen and heard, then you’re left with a Sherlock Holmes problem. Engines are reliable, and they’re unlikely to be shut down by the pilots, or wayward birds. The problem seems to start just after rotate. Does something happen, or change, there? This is not a 737. The engines are huge, and will almost certainly just eat most birds. And, even if they didn’t, symmetrical failure without some compressor stalling makes no sense. Software is an unknown, and keeps becoming more powerful, and pervasive. How deeply is it even possible to test it?

Something must have happened there to cause the RAT to deploy.

 

[Must...Fly!]

But what random confluence of events led to the outcome? It's hard to imagine an electrical or software failure that hasn't presented itself somehow, at some point, before - this type has been in service for well over a decade. It's frustrating we haven't got any further to finding out the truth yet...hope the whole three months doesn't pass before we (and much more importantly the families of victims) get some kind of explanation.

 

[oz_mark]

But what random confluence of events led to the outcome? It's hard to imagine an electrical or software failure that hasn't presented itself somehow, at some point, before - this type has been in service for well over a decade. It's frustrating we haven't got any further to finding out the truth yet...hope the whole three months doesn't pass before we (and much more importantly the families of victims) get some kind of explanation.

Even then we may only be at the point of 'what happened'. The why it happened may take somewhat longer (or not).

 

[jb747]

- this type has been in service for well over a decade.

Oxygen bottles have been in service forever. As far as the ATSB were able to discover, only one has ever decided to go bang whilst sitting and minding it's own business. You just need the holes to line up in the right way, or in the case of software, the right sequence of events, which may be totally unrelated, and so never tested. This software gets nowhere near the ongoing testing that the average home operating system does.

 

[RSD]

Oxygen bottles have been in service forever. As far as the ATSB were able to discover, only one has ever decided to go bang whilst sitting and minding it's own business. You just need the holes to line up in the right way, or in the case of software, the right sequence of events, which may be totally unrelated, and so never tested. This software gets nowhere near the ongoing testing that the average home operating system does.

There is certainly that - plenty of things over time have suffered catastrophic totally un-expected one time events, and there have also been plenty of known events that have been ignored as they weren't thought likely to cause a problem but they did - the space shuttle program is an example.

 

[Rabs97]

Not an expert on aviation, but not just any lawyer either.

Mary Schiavo was an ex lawyer with the U.S. Department of Transport who had a particular grudge against the U.S. FAA. But most of her work was from the 90s. Now she supposedly works for a private law firm who seem very litigious.

She gave an interview where she suspects the issue was a malfunction in the 787’s TCMA, referencing the ANA shutdown on landing incident when reverse was selected, but the circumstances were different. For it to have happened to AI 171 it would have meant a failure of the air ground logic and a simultaneously a double erroneous failure on each engine to command a shutdown. Almost 100 billion to one odds. Also thinks the 787 has FADEC when in fact it’s EEC so I don’t think her technical knowledge is statisfactory at all.

Boeing 787 software may have caused AI crash: Aviation expert - The Sunday Guardian Live

Mary Schiavo warns Air India crash may involve Boeing 787’s software-triggered engine thrust rollback malfunction. NEW DELHI: In a wide-ranging exclusive

sundayguardianlive.com

No doubt law firms across the world will be getting ready for an avalanche of lawsuits aimed at whatever targets they think they can exploit to achieve a payout, no matter how irrelevant that factor is to the outcome of the incident. I’m reminded of the law firms across that successfully sued the manufacturer of Silk Air flight 185’s rudder for causing it to crash, when it’s clearly obvious that was not the cause of the crash:

SilkAir Flight 185 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org