Air India B787 crash Ahmedabad

[tgh]

I have said this before but it's time to say it again
We are very fortunate to have the wise input of @jb747 and other professionals in threads like this….Thank you

 

[markis10]

JQ has 11 787-8's Average age is given as 10.9 years.

JB747 was referring to the ugly ducklings, aka the early build 787s, Jetstar first was line number 123

 

[RSD]

One interesting detail was the Mayday call - "Mayday, Mayday no power... no thrust... going down"

It could be nothing, but the words "engine failure" weren't used. Did the engines cease working - or were had they just rolled back to idle? There was the JAL incident a few years ago where both engines rolled back during landing - was that JAL aircraft part of the same suspect batch of 787's?

 

[DC3]

"Mayday, Mayday no power... no thrust... going down"

 

[jb747]

It could be nothing, but the words "engine failure" weren't used. Did the engines cease working - or were had they just rolled back to idle? There was the JAL incident a few years ago where both engines rolled back during landing - was that JAL aircraft part of the same suspect batch of 787's?

It was ANA. There's a little information here (ANA Boeing 787 dual engine shutdown upon landing - SamChui.com).

It's worth noting that ANA subsequently came out saying there was no engine failure. The trail seems to end there.

 

[RSD]

It was ANA. There's a little information here (ANA Boeing 787 dual engine shutdown upon landing - SamChui.com).

It's worth noting that ANA subsequently came out saying there was no engine failure. The trail seems to end there.

Bit of a weird one - yes the engines didn't fail - but something commanded both engines to simultaneously shut down when they shouldn't have - and interestingly they couldn't get them operational after they disembarked the passengers on the runway.

 

[markis10]

Bit of a weird one - yes the engines didn't fail - but something commanded both engines to simultaneously shut down when they shouldn't have - and interestingly they couldn't get them operational after they disembarked the passengers on the runway.

Trent’s rather than the GEs in this case

 

[RSD]

Trent’s rather than the GEs in this case

Yes - but up to a certain point the Boeing software etc would be the same for both.

 

[flyer89]

Rumour has it QF has conducted their own internal investigation and believe it’s almost certainly pilot error. They haven’t elaborated on the why. At least not to the masses anyway.

 

[serfty]

Rumour has it QF has conducted their own internal investigation and believe it’s almost certainly pilot error. They haven’t elaborated on the why. At least not to the masses anyway.

Qantas would want that. Imagine if all 787's needed to be grounded again.

 

[Grrr]

Rumour has it QF has conducted their own internal investigation and believe it’s almost certainly pilot error. They haven’t elaborated on the why. At least not to the masses anyway.

How on earth would Qantas be in a position to investigate another airline's hardware/maintenance records etc etc ??!

 

[RSD]

How on earth would Qantas be in a position to investigate another airline's hardware/maintenance records etc etc ??!

Probably the best they could have done was try to replicate the incident in a simulator - but others might know more.

 

[DC3]

How on earth would Qantas be in a position to investigate another airline's hardware/maintenance records etc etc ??!

Exactly. It’s just a rumour, apparently.

 

[MooTime]

Ah yes Qantas with little info blame the pilot, but if it was reversed you can bet you bottom dollar that fault would lay with Boeing & Qantas would assist Boeing all it can to find the Boeing fault.
QF party trick.

 

[oz_mark]

Probably a baseless rumour. Can't imagine Qantas would be in a position to determine such a thing.

 

[elanshin]

At best its pilots discussing rumours and going through the scenarios. I highly doubt any company not involved with the investigation will make any assertions. As with everyone though, we can all guess and speculate internally like we're doing here.

 

[Saab34]

How will Qantas Management hit their bonus KPIs if they ground the 787s, that’s all they care about.

 

[jb747]

Rumour has it QF has conducted their own internal investigation and believe it’s almost certainly pilot error. They haven’t elaborated on the why. At least not to the masses anyway.

What would they investigate? The odds against the multiple failures might be immense, but so were the odds against a random oxygen bottle explosion. And someone wins lotto each week. I’m not hearing anything from my 787 contacts.

It’s the same reason I’ve never really liked ETOPS. It’s just a game of odds, with lots of fiddles to make it seem reasonable. But, one day, someone will end up with just the wrong combination of failures, in the middle of nowhere.

How on earth would Qantas be in a position to investigate another airline's hardware/maintenance records etc etc ??!

Exactly.

 

[jenib]

At best its pilots discussing rumours and going through the scenarios. I highly doubt any company not involved with the investigation will make any assertions. As with everyone though, we can all guess and speculate internally like we're doing here.

Totally understandable for pilots and others who could be affected by the eventual findings (other crew, staff, customers flying 787 soon etc) to be discussing it - with varying degrees of knowledge and understanding. Whenever something critical happens related to a large organisation it is unavoidable and all management can do is issue ‘guidance’ and hold info sessions.

 

[RSD]

It’s the same reason I’ve never really liked ETOPS. It’s just a game of odds, with lots of fiddles to make it seem reasonable. But, one day, someone will end up with just the wrong combination of failures, in the middle of nowhere.

ETOPS is basically a game of changing the rules until it results in a risk assessment that is both plausible to the uninitiated and low enough for those that need to see the risk assessment to approve something.