Air India B787 crash Ahmedabad

[comehither]

Smiling Selfie On Ill-Fated Plane: A Doctor Couple And Their 3 Young Children

The photo marked a new beginning for the family - Komi Vyas, a doctor who worked in a hospital in Udaipur, had quit her job and was moving to join her husband, Dr Prateek Joshi, in London with their three children - and the joy was palpable.

www.ndtv.com

 

[flyer89]

There’s new footage that shows part of the takeoff roll through to the impact with the ground. It’s difficult to see but it looks like it may have been a forced rotation as he was out of runway.

Ignore the gibberish written by the person (or bot) posting it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933252978284376360

 

[Flyerwin]

A survivor! From The Oz app:

View attachment 450470

……


View attachment 450474

His seat number apparently:

 

[tomlee1986]

His seat number apparently:

View attachment 450479

A miracle to survive this… no one would have thought there would be a survivor in this sad tragedy

 

[AIRwin]

Wilson’s flight was still over India when word of the crash came.

Looks like his flight AI143 turned around not far from AMD

 

[Quickstatus]

Live Updates continuing (scroll down)
Unverified Photo from same:

 

[MARTINE]

A miracle to survive this… no one would have thought there would be a survivor in this sad tragedy

I have just watched some TV footage - he walked from the wreck - beyond comprehension he was uninjured (physically).
My thoughts with those devastated families waiting for loved ones.

 

[markis10]

I have just watched some TV footage - he walked from the wreck - beyond comprehension he was uninjured (physically).

Not sure he was uninjured, still went to hospital where he was visited by British Diplomats and has internal bleeding but expected to be released in a few days. The PTSD and likely imposter syndrome will take a bit to overcome, but it’s a sure bet any flying done in the future he will be getting an exit row.

 

[MARTINE]

Not sure he was uninjured, still went to hospital where he was visited by British Diplomats and has internal bleeding but expected to be released in a few days. The PTSD and likely imposter syndrome will take a bit to overcome, but it’s a sure bet any flying done in the future he will be getting an exit row.

Yes - I could have worded differently but to walk away was amazing.

 

[jb747]

There’s new footage that shows part of the takeoff roll through to the impact with the ground. It’s difficult to see but it looks like it may have been a forced rotation as he was out of runway.

It may be a late rotation, but it doesn’t look wrong with regard to the rate or to the final pitch attitude. If he’d been slow when he rotated, you’d almost certainly have ended with a tail scrape, and the video doesn’t seem to show enough angle for that, nor does the tail in the debris. The dust is interesting, but this is India, so nothing would surprise me about the condition of the airport.

When the aircraft is accelerating on the runway, it is subject to friction via the wheels, and also to increasing amounts of form drag. But, as it is not flying, it’s basically not producing lift. As soon as it rotates, it creates lift, and with that comes induced drag. Induced drag is also at its maximum at low speed and high angles of attack. So, immediately after liftoff, you will always have a dramatic increase in the amount of drag.

This is an old one, and it basically related to reverse thrust, but it’s still interesting.

ANA Boeing 787 dual engine shutdown upon landing - SamChui.com

An All Nippon Airways Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner had both engine shutdown simultaneously upon landing, disabling the aircraft on the runway.

samchui.com

 

[Daver6]

Question for the pilots.

There's been speculation about flaps not being correctly configured. If that was the case, wouldn't the aircraft have not climbed initially?

Also, https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...h/news-story/110b39f01e82ad7eb4e4f8efea0d41ae reporting the mayday call as "Mayday ... no thrust, losing power, unable to lift"

 

[Quickstatus]

Need continual energy input to overcome kinetic energy losses from drag (form and induced) and lift which is just conversion of kinetic energy into potential energy.

Was there any audio of stick shaker indication a stall in the pilot comms?.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There has been a lot of speculation about the flaps, which in the couple of videos circulating might look like they haven’t been deployed.

So I thought I’d go looking for a comparison.

This video shows several 787 takeoffs from MEL. Close up to the camera at the beginning of the runway the flaps are clearly set for takeoff… but by the time of liftoff the flap setting is almost imperceptible to the (untrained) eye.

The flaps aren’t as pronounced as say the 747 during takeoff.

Given the quality, and distances, involved in the couple of videos of AI171, it would seem hard to reach any conclusions about flap settings?

 

[RSD]

It may be a late rotation, but it doesn’t look wrong with regard to the rate or to the final pitch attitude. If he’d been slow when he rotated, you’d almost certainly have ended with a tail scrape, and the video doesn’t seem to show enough angle for that, nor does the tail in the debris. The dust is interesting, but this is India, so nothing would surprise me about the condition of the airport.

I don't think that a puff of dust on rotation in Ahmedabad at this time of year would be unusual - high of 39 degC there today, and it was noted earlier that runway works were being carried out so there might be exposed earth alongside the runway.

In Cairo dusty runways are the norm - its impossible to keep dust off the runway there.

The survivor's comment about there being a big bang and then impact 30 seconds later is interesting and may give a clue as to what has happened.

 

[mjt57]

I don't think that a puff of dust on rotation in Ahmedabad at this time of year would be unusual - high of 39

Commenters (commentators?) are speculating that it's dust from the end of the runway, the run-off area.

Mover over on YT suggests minimal or no flats set (he flys the 787). But others have said that crash wreckage shows extended slats and flaps not retracted. I wonder - would the mechanical damage from the impact have dislodged them?

He also commented on the gear still being down.

And some "expert" on 3AW talks about auto-throttle problem and other reasons.

 

[jb747]

There's been speculation about flaps not being correctly configured. If that was the case, wouldn't the aircraft have not climbed initially?

Since the introduction of electronic calculation of the take of data, the ability to work out the 'best' configuration changed dramatically. On the 747, we basically used just the one setting, because it was too time consuming to calculate the data for multiple settings. Laptops and iPads changed that, so that now you can see an entire range of settings being used, and it's common to see takeoffs with very little flap. If you don't have the correct setting, the aircraft will not rotate and lift off normally, and the video seems to show a normal rotation.As far as I'm concerned, I can see no reason to continue with the flap theories.

Commenters (commentators?) are speculating that it's dust from the end of the runway, the run-off area.

Someone triangulated the liftoff, a building, and security cam, and they come up with lift off near taxiway C, which would mean about 3,000' remaining. That's pretty much what I'd expect for a normal take-off.

Mover over on YT suggests minimal or no flats set (he flys the 787).

Mover should know better than that. Firstly the video does show slats, and a small amount of flap, but if you tried to take off without flap you'd get a very hard to ignore configuration warning. You would also get that warning if the flap selected were not one of the notional 'take-off' settings. There is also a comparison of selected flap position against the FMC data when the electronic checklist is being done.

But others have said that crash wreckage shows extended slats and flaps not retracted. I wonder - would the mechanical damage from the impact have dislodged them?

Unlikely.

He also commented on the gear still being down.

There's conjecture about the status of the RAT, which probably has more to tell us.

And some "expert" on 3AW talks about auto-throttle problem and other reasons.

You can just push through the autothrottle. Anyway, on a Boeing, it's disabled from 60 knots to about 400 AGL. I'm probably more interested in what the FCUs and their software were doing. This all looks so normal, right up to the point where the air ground switch would have changed to air.

 

[Saab34]

I'm probably more interested in what the FCUs and their software were doing

I’m interested in this also. The aircraft was an early build 787, sat idle in Seattle for a number of years before being delivered. Its entry into service was no A350 that’s for sure, littered with issues.

Also would appear that’s it’s ready for its first heavy check. The state of the books is obviously unknown but I was talking to an engineer not that long ago and was surprised how ‘rough’ some aircraft enter the first 10 year check like. The amount of broken things, leaking things, was quite interesting.

 

[markis10]

I’m interested in this also. The aircraft was an early build 787, sat idle in Seattle for a number of years before being delivered. Its entry into service was no A350 that’s for sure, littered with issues.

Air Indias 787 experience is more to do with their financial woes, they had canablised 787s stored while they got money raised to fix them just after they were delivered.

 

[daft009]

my cousin is a first officer for A.I
not happy since Tata took over I'm told

 

[Warks]

I’m interested in this also. The aircraft was an early build 787, sat idle in Seattle for a number of years before being delivered. Its entry into service was no A350 that’s for sure, littered with issues.

Also would appear that’s it’s ready for its first heavy check. The state of the books is obviously unknown but I was talking to an engineer not that long ago and was surprised how ‘rough’ some aircraft enter the first 10 year check like. The amount of broken things, leaking things, was quite interesting.

I saw a video posted on Reddit of a guy who was on the previous flight from Delhi to Ahmedabad. He was showing how his entertainment system wouldn't work or the call button and the AC wasn't working. But people pointed out that everyone else's seemed to be working in his video etc.