Air Canada RJ impact with ground vehicle, at least 2 fatalities

[Quickstatus]

My thinking is that the collision occurred about where Delta & Echo intersect (where I've put the cross).

No. The airport map in post #6 upthread suggests the location you indicated is E/F

 

[justinbrett]

My thinking is that the collision occurred about where Delta & Echo intersect (where I've put the cross).
View attachment 501473

I got the feeling that the second ARFF truck (32) was coming from a different direction, and my suspicion is that following the incident ARFF truck was the air stairs that were originally sent out to the United when it was stopped on the Alpha taxiway with its odor problem - but that is just my reading between the lines of it.

I wouldn’t be game to speculate based on that.

If the two trucks were in different locations/travelling in different directions they should not be using “in company”. If true that’s a red flag right there.

 

[Saab34]

No doubt as day starts to break over that way some videos/cctv will surface.

 

[RSD]

No. The airport map in post #6 upthread suggests the location you indicated is E/F
View attachment 501474

Good pickup - I meant Echo & Foxtrot... - will edit my post

 

[RSD]

If the two trucks were in different locations/travelling in different directions they should not be using “in company”. If true that’s a red flag right there.

The recording said "Truck 1 and company" - company could be the air stairs, an ambulance, a fire chief's SUV.

 

[jb747]

The aircraft was not on the taxiway, but was still doing around 80 knots on the centreline of the runway. When all motion ceased, it ended up on the taxiway. A rule of aviation is that you never enter/cross a runway, even if cleared, without actually making sure that it is really clear.

 

[markis10]

The recording said "Truck 1 and company" - company could be the air stairs, an ambulance, a fire chief's SUV.

Air stairs would be very unlikely, they usually are not equipped to drive on taxiways

 

[sudoer]

The aircraft was not on the taxiway, but was still doing around 80 knots on the centreline of the runway.

Several outlets reported it was doing 24mph, can I ask where the 80 knots figure is from?

 

[fletty]

Several outlets reported it was doing 24mph, can I ask where the 80 knots figure is from?

There is a video of the incident occurring, and the CRJ is still travelling at speed. Looks much more like 80 knots then 24mph.

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting/comments/1s1pms2/moment_air_canada_flight_collided_with_a_fire

 

[markis10]

Several outlets reported it was doing 24mph, can I ask where the 80 knots figure is from?

There was a velocity plot of the adsb data upthread

 

[RooFlyer]

Here's a more extended video than posted above. Unfortunately probably paywalled by The Oz. One observation. 'The Company' to the first truck are a long way back from it (?30 to 50m?) - surely would be considered a different movement? And they appear to have stopped moments before the collision - saw the jet coming on? Or maybe slowed before the video started, resulting in the first racing ahead.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/firefighters-critically-injured-as-air-canada-jet-collides-with-firetruck-at-laguardia/news-story/27fc09ad98dfa38ccf16b91b30b99a95

 

[RooFlyer]

And Juan Browne, with info on # flights occurring at the time, runway diagrams and commentary, ATC covering from the preceding United issue (with some stress caused) and an earlier 'Truck stop' command, which was a bit unclear.

 

[markis10]

Having listened to the audio this morning I note a few things:
1. Landing aircraft was given an early clearance, helps with workload but has obvious pitfalls.
2. Clearance for the ground vehicle movement was given probably 20-30 secs before a number of stop commands were issued, a cancellation of the landing clearance/go around commandshould have been given at that stage.
3. It appears the positions were not combined and thus frequencies were not being rebroadcast, along with the Washington accident this seems to be a common theme, and a massive oversight that reduces situational awareness. There maybe technical issues as a reason for this, in Australia all civil installations have the ability to combine positions and rebroadcast.
4. Separation breakdown alarms are going off in the tower when the stop commands start coming.
5. It’s not clear what state the stop bars were in but a clearance to cross at delta would not have seen the bar lights extinguish at echo.

 

[Quickstatus]

5. It’s not clear what state the stop bars were in but a clearance to cross at delta would not have seen the bar lights extinguish at echo.

I'm wondering if the trucks actually crossed at D and not E. It appears the aircraft came to a stop at E/F

 

[justinbrett]

I'm wondering if the trucks actually crossed at D and not E. It appears the aircraft came to a stop at E/F

I’m still thinking D, but really doesn’t make much of a difference - vehicle was cleared to cross when an aircraft was in the landing roll.

3. It appears the positions were not combined and thus frequencies were not being rebroadcast, along with the Washington accident this seems to be a common theme, and a massive oversight that reduces situational awareness. There maybe technical issues as a reason for this, in Australia all civil installations have the ability to combine positions and rebroadcast.

Yep, I learnt this in the last hour and I immediately thought of DCA. In Australia it’s not just civil, RAAF also rebroadcast combined frequencies (also do it between VHF and UHF).

I would think even if the LGA controller was not rebroadcasting, the controller transmissions would be going out on all frequencies? Ie, landing clearance would’ve heard by the truck, cross clearance would be heard by the aircraft, even if the replies were not rebroadcast. Surely not isolating transmissions to specific frequencies?

 

[DejaBrew]

‘A miracle’: Canadian flight attendant ejected from plane survives New York crash

Solange Tremblay was ejected over 100 metres from the plane after collision at LaGuardia airport, her daughter says

www.theguardian.com

A flight attendant on the Air Canada Jazz flight that collided with a fire truck at New York’s LaGuardia airport on Sunday survived in what her daughter called a “complete miracle”, when she was ejected more than 100 metres from the plane while still strapped to her seat.

That's a slightly different scenario to what I understood from earlier reports

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm wondering if the trucks actually crossed at D and not E. It appears the aircraft came to a stop at E/F

Agree. Crossing at E would be a strange circuitous way for the trucks to make their way from the fire station, to United, which was about where the big I (computer cursor) is on this diagram. Geometry and the ATC says its D