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AFF - are we our own self-moderating enemy?

p--and--t

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And that's your opinion. In my opinion Qantas are by far the best including food, beverage, seats, service, price etc.

You can ignore the other points but everyone is very important. I do like that I can preorder meals in economy and 2 different curry meals is not a choice. Qantas along with Emirates also has good child meals. And I do like that I can earn status and QFF points on the cheapest of airfares and you can't do that on SQ, CX or TG.
My opinion respectfully disagrees with your opinion.

Enjoy your Qantas blinkers .... :)


There you go-"Self Moderation" :p
Well I'll disagree with both of you, just to balance things out ;)

Qantas is definitely not necessarily the best all the time JohnK. Depends on the day, the flight, the class and the crew. I really liked the soft product in QR J. However the hard product on older QR planes is far inferior to the hard J product on the new QF fitouts.

And as far as the assertion by Serfty that QF is the worst Y product, that is just one of the most outright ludicrous statements going around. Having travelled on somewhere between 16-18 airlines on all continents in J Y+ and Y, short and long-haul (except Antarctica) I can assure you QF fits somewhere in the top 5. And as far as EK goes - it is on my banned list for a whole range of reasons.
 

dajop

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So just so that I understand here, it's self moderation because some passengers are prepared to counter negative views with positive views? In that case who is doing the self moderating, is it those with the positive views only? Is the natural order of things that negative views should go unchallenged and if so, is that for one airline or all of them?
It' not a natural order on forums that negative things go unchallenged, but on platforms like Facebook, its' not common for people to defend the airline. Look at the social media that QF (and other airlines) DO have an active presence on (twitbook etc). On those forums, airlines tend to a) Promote their brand, b) Counter negative media and c) Deal with grievances of their customers. On AFF, we have contributors that do all three, certainly for QF and VA, as well as a range of foreign carriers (SQ, EK, QR, BA). It's the LCC's and less significant foreign carriers (from a market share of Australian international traffic point of view), that tend to have comments about them that go unchallenged.
 

33kft

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I would choose not to read those forums as they are almost without question one-sided beat ups by people who often didn't comply with their obligations and blame the airline.

That's why I come here. What I don't like about this forum is the obligation to bash carriers who are out of favour with the majority. Not sure why people can't go about their business without being accused of having Stockholm Syndrome. My personal opinion is that bucking the trend the way we do when we take responsibility for our own travel plans and not whinging like Facebookers is much more thoughtful than taking the default position and expecting others to follow. Just an opinion.
 

juddles

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.......On those forums, airlines tend to a) Promote their brand, b) Counter negative media and c) Deal with grievances of their customers. On AFF, we have contributors that do all three, certainly for QF and VA....
dajop, I think you have perfectly described the concept of "self-moderating" as is in the head of Ms Wirth (and QF)
:)
 

juddles

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I would choose not to read those forums as they are almost without question one-sided beat ups by people who often didn't comply with their obligations and blame the airline.

That's why I come here. What I don't like about this forum is the obligation to bash carriers who are out of favour with the majority. Not sure why people can't go about their business without being accused of having Stockholm Syndrome. My personal opinion is that bucking the trend the way we do when we take responsibility for our own travel plans and not whinging like Facebookers is much more thoughtful than taking the default position and expecting others to follow. Just an opinion.
33kft, I agree with much of what you say here.

I have felt the frustration quite often when I have posted something positive about QF, only to be hailed a "fanboi" etc etc etc. This being despite the fact that I also regularly voice issues against QF.

At the end of the day, we are all going to have differences of opinions, as each of us have different needs or likes. In combination with the variety of actual experiences you get on QF, then naturally the airline will be the "worst" or the "best" depending on who you ask. And they are all valid opinions.
 

JohnK

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Well of course you can’t earn QFF points on the cheapest airfares of SQ and TG. You can’t even earn them on the most expensive F fare either :p

That aside your post(s) illustrate perfectly why QF don’t need a presence on AFF - there will always be “self moderation” - someone to defend the brand in a far more convincing manner than a company representative ever could.
You know what I mean. ;)

I missed the QF sale to BKK which would have meant $2200 for 3 to fly EK/3K. Next choice was Air Asia direct to BKK ~$1600 for 3 which is Ok but not too keen on Air Asia long haul.

I have been checking CX the last month or so and the airfare has been over $1000 per person in a limited earning fare class.

Same on SQ. The best I saw was ~$980 per person in limited KrisFlyer earning airfare that cannot be credited to VA.

And why is it a sin to defend a brand that is actually quite good and works for someone? A very rich friend who is retired travels Scoot to/from Thailand and swears by it. They leave their clothes and golf bag in the condo in Pattaya and travel carry on only on cheap airfares.

To each their own.
 

MEL_Traveller

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And why is it a sin to defend a brand that is actually quite good and works for someone?
It's not a 'sin', but most of us regulars on here understand the trappings status has in choosing your flight. Visitors to this site may not know that. So it's important to provide perspective.

When you get the bulkhead, first crack at meals and business class amenities... and join the flight with priority boarding, straight from the first class lounge, and have a warm welcome with the offer of immediate assistance if there is anything you need... you may be prepared to overlook the myriad of frustrations that are encountered by the orinary, regular traveller.
 

MEL_Traveller

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So just so that I understand here, it's self moderation because some passengers are prepared to counter negative views with positive views? In that case who is doing the self moderating, is it those with the positive views only? Is the natural order of things that negative views should go unchallenged and if so, is that for one airline or all of them?
I don't believe that's the definition of a 'self-moderating' forum.

The most common definition of a 'self-moderating' forum appears to be one where there is basically no moderation, and members rely on each other to remain civil. AFF has moderators.

Subject matter doesn't really come in to it, or the views of the members to balance each other.

I think what QF might mean is that they are not the ones moderating the forum, and they don't have the ability to influence outcomes the way they might in other forums where they are in the lead or have control.
 

dajop

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Same on SQ. The best I saw was ~$980 per person in limited KrisFlyer earning airfare that cannot be credited to VA.
Are you sure about that? Every regular, commercially available fare on SQ can be credited to both KrisFlyer and Velocity, provided not operated by Scoot or partially paid with KF mile. The cheaper - Economy Lite fares - will not earn any miles in other star alliance programs though. Group fares I don't think are eligible for any program earning, and the rare as hens teeth L class fares - only earn 10% in Velocity (and nothing on KF??), and discount economy status credits.

For example, I randomly selected some dates, SYD-BKK return, and that came up with a Economy Lite fare that books into K class - costing $790 return, and will earn @ 50% miles if travelling on SQ code, and 90 status credits.
 

p--and--t

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I'll stick my oar in again

My reasoning that AFF is self moderating is there a wide divergence of views and experiences and unlike some forums where you are not welcome & maybe banned or stalked if you don't follow the herd, most posters to AFF do not get away with making "fake news" statements (good or bad) without getting challenged.

While there is often some sympathy extended to first time ranters, it is quickly balanced by real world facts - "the world ain't perfect" and airlines and their crew and their aircraft and their passengers and the weather are a function of a non-perfect world.
 

clipped_wings

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You have it the wrong way around my friend...We live and breathe this stuff all day long. It's a hobby/borderline obsession for some of us...... That is why so many airline employees come to this forum. It's a free education.
Love this! The whole post pretty much summed it up for me. My love of flying actually transcends my need to fly with any particular airline. But I do appreciate the familiarity and perks that come with being a dedicated FFlyer.
 

trippin_the_rift

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...

I think what QF might mean is that they are not the ones moderating the forum, and they don't have the ability to influence outcomes the way they might in other forums where they are in the lead or have control.
The fact is, Qantas would maintain a known presence on AFF if there was value for them.

I don't like beating down on AFF, but AFF is a forum and it's great for lurkers and members - but not good for airlines. To get airlines to 'buy-in' to being here, the business model needs to evolve past being a forum.
 

MEL_Traveller

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The fact is, Qantas would maintain a known presence on AFF if there was value for them.

I don't like beating down on AFF, but AFF is a forum and it's great for lurkers and members - but not good for airlines. To get airlines to 'buy-in' to being here, the business model needs to evolve past being a forum.
It wasn't good for QF because every time a legitimate issue was raised the QF rep was unable to handle it. On the other hand it gave QF invlauable insight to the operation of their FF program, and any loopholes. It's likely they're still here getting the intel, just not participating.

Airline reps take an active part in other forums, so maybe it's just down to the lack of competition in Australia?
 

trippin_the_rift

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It wasn't good for QF because every time a legitimate issue was raised the QF rep was unable to handle it. On the other hand it gave QF invlauable insight to the operation of their FF program, and any loopholes. It's likely they're still here getting the intel, just not participating.

Airline reps take an active part in other forums, so maybe it's just down to the lack of competition in Australia?
I think it's simple as where Australians hang out online:

facebook = xx million members
twitter = xx million members
aff = 50k members?

Need to evolve AFF so that it's not lumped in the 'social media' category where it can't compete.
 

Matt_01

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To hard to quote all the responses I would like to. I enjoy the way @juddles creates banter, it keeps me amused for hours as read through many other posts on status runs, DSC, complaints from DYKWIA types (QF and VA), I am switching to VA etc.

I find it all very amusing, I am a frequent flyer yet I have no interest in flying (planes are just a bus with wings), normally travel around 150-170 segments per year. I am under no illusion that QF, VA or SQ would care if I no longer fly with them.
 
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p--and--t

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To hard to quote all the responses I would like to. I enjoy the way @juddles creates banter, it keeps me amused for hours as read through many other posts on status runs, DSC, complaints from DYKWIA types (QF and VA), I am switching to VA etc.
@juddles is a wizz at creating posts that will rattle the cages - a true master at work - I sit back in admiration.
 

Matt_01

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@p--and--t I have never meet @juddles in person but understand his stance on travel. We are in a similar vain, both high mileage travellers and away from family a lot. Well that was the case either last year or the year before, we spent an evening sending PMs about travel and from memory he was away and I had just go home. It was also a P1 night that MrsM and MissM attended (a ballet) that I would have other wised missed due to late arrival and would have fallen a sleep at.
 
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juddles

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@juddles is a wizz at creating posts that will rattle the cages - a true master at work - I sit back in admiration.
I don't specifically set out to rattle cages, but I do immensely enjoy the banter that can result. I have learned so much about so many things here on AFF (even subjects that have nothing to do with flying). I have strong views on many topics, but I truly respect hearing the other side, and in some cases this has actually swayed my own thinking. There are quite a few "regulars" on here with whom I share almost no opinions, but with those I enjoy the arguments, for the above reasons.
 

clipped_wings

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@p--and--t I have never meet @juddles in person but understand his stance on travel. We are in a similar vain, both high mileage travellers and away from family a lot.
Respect to you both. Yes, absolutely see the other side of the observation. High mileage travellers definitely pay the price when it comes to family. Running our own business for the past 25 years has, at least, liberated us to enjoy all those milestones with our kids. So, wishing I could have flown more, just for the fun of it - would have had its implications.

We can't afford to fly every week. But you can't buy what we have either :)
 

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