AA Plat versus QF Plat

[zeppelin]

Hi all,

I have been sporadically reading this forum, and just signed up because I have a little dilemma. I just started a project at work which means weekly return J flights MEL-PER for 8 weeks. I need your help to decide whether to credit to AA or QF!

I am currently AA Plat (~10K EQMs) and QF Bronze (0 SCs).

By my calculations, if I credit to AA, all this flying would requalify me as Plat and earn just over 60K miles.

If I credit to QF, I would earn 1280 SCs and just over 50K points (including status bonuses and extra points as I reach Silver and Gold). This would get me close to Plat, and my regular flying would take me the rest of the way.

While I would obviously prefer OW Emerald to OW Sapphire, I am concerned that if I don't credit to AA, then I will lose the elite earning rate with AA in future. Plus I would earn more miles on AA.

What do you think?

 

[Dave Noble]

Since you are already Platinum with AA, I would stick with AA. The benefits of Emerald are nicer than QF , but the earning on AA tends to be much better valeu

As an AA Platinum member flying on that route you would earn 2102 EQPs per sector and 3783 spending miles per flight. 16 of these will get you 33,632 Qpoints plus 60,528 spending miles

If you were to credit to QF , you would do the 1st 5 sectors as bronze, then 4 sectors as silver and the rest as Gold giving a total of 1280 SCs ( still 120 short of Platinum)

The spending miles earned would be

5 * 1681 * 1.25 + 4 * (1681 *1.25 * 1.25 ) + 7 * (1681 * 1.5 * 1.25)
10510 + 10092 + 20061 = 41,203 spending miles

( based on 25% bonus for business class and then applying the 25% and 50% bonuses for silver and gold )

If you consider the spending value of the miles earned, 60,000 AA miles will get you a 1 way business class to Europe whilst 41,203 would leave you short 22,797 for an economy flight to Europe and 86,797 short of a business class ticket

Using domestically, 35,000 AA points gives a J r/t to anywhere in AU/NZ whilst the equivalent would be 72,000 QF points

You will earn more miles to AA and help to easily maintain Platinum plus get much better spending value

There is nothing that being a QF member that you will gain domestically

Dave

 

[zeppelin]

Thanks for the thoughts Dave.

I am leaning towards AA as well, as I would prefer the better spending value of the AA miles to a slightly nicer lounge.

One other point to consider is that I do earn >200K QF points per year from my CC, and QF Platinum status would give me better award availability. That said, I use award points for international/RTW travel, not necessarily on QF.

A couple of clarifications on the calculations:
- For the AA program, I believe business flights earn 1.5 EQP per base mile, which would give 1.5 * 1682 = 2523 EQPs per sector, for a total of 40,368 Qpoints (so together with the 10K Qpoints I have already, this would qualify me for Platinum)
- For the QF program, I believe there is also a loyalty bonus of 5,000 points per 450 SCs earned, so I would earn 10,000 extra spending miles on top of the 41,203 you mentioned, for a total of just over 50K.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[Dave Noble]

Ooops. I multiplied the base miles by 1.25 rather than 1.5 , so indeed should be 2523 qpoints per sector for a total of 40,638 ensuring platinum for another year

I did miss the loyalty bonuses of 10k but also missed the upgrade credit earning of 8 upgrade credits from 20000 base miles to AA which can be converted to 4000 spending miles

So would be 51,203 miles to QF and 64,528 miles to AA

I would say that maintaining platinum status plus the much better value of AA miles would make crediting to AA the way to go

As far as domestic travel goes, travelling in business class , you get access to the business lounge anyway, so no better domestically.


I don't know what other travel you may have before the end of the year, but in case you can get to 75 qpoints or qmiles, there is a promo this year that you can register for (ELTRW)

AAdvantage Platinum members who earn 75,000 - 99,999 elite-qualifying miles or points during 2009 will be eligible to select one of the following rewards: four 500-mile upgrades; two Admirals Club One-Day passes; 15,000 AAdvantage bonus miles; or the opportunity to reward a friend with AAdvantage Gold status for one year.

Dave

 

[Spider]

I used to be AA Platinum for years before switching to UA. AA points system was very generous and staff accommodating. The only problem was that I couldn't upgrade with AA points on QF metal. But award flights on QF more than compensated this.

 

[medhead]

The spending miles earned would be

5 * 1681 * 1.25 + 4 * (1681 *1.25 * 1.25 ) + 7 * (1681 * 1.5 * 1.25)
10510 + 10092 + 20061 = 41,203 spending miles

( based on 25% bonus for business class and then applying the 25% and 50% bonuses for silver and gold )

Dave

Just one pedantic mathematical point, the status and cabin bonus is only applied to the based points. Whereas the calculation above, immpliesan extra 25% bonus on the 25% and 50% status bonus. (But the numbers are roughly correct, expect for a miss placed 6)

it should be expressed more like

5*1681*1.25+4*1681*1.5+7*1681*1.75 =10510+10092+20608

Sorry force of habit.

 

[simongr]

I used to be AA EXP (well still am until Feb) but recently switched back to QF (I was comped to WP) due to better seating on domestic flights and it will be easier to retain WP.

One of the key benefits for me is the trips with mrssimongr and babygr.

 

[drron]

Well I am AA plat(ex-EXP) and my wife will soon be WP.For me the only thing I missed falling back to plat was F lounge access.The reason for both of us not becoming WP is that as AA plat I am still getting 100% mileage bonus and the ease,not to mention less miles,to obtain premium cabin awards.Even as an AA plat we have not missed out on upgrades to AA longhaul F-but of course now using points.However for the next 12 months I will again have EVIPs for getting to a million miles-another reason for me to stay with AA.
As to domestic seating on QF we are nearly always in J as part of a RTW fare so it really doesn't matter-as with your trips to Perth.The other downside of AA plat is if you are travelling domestically in the USA WP gets you lounge access,AA plat does not.I have a life QP so not an issue.

 

[Dave Noble]

Just one pedantic mathematical point, the status and cabin bonus is only applied to the based points. Whereas the calculation above, immpliesan extra 25% bonus on the 25% and 50% status bonus. (But the numbers are roughly correct, expect for a miss placed 6)

it should be expressed more like

5*1681*1.25+4*1681*1.5+7*1681*1.75 =10510+10092+20608

Sorry force of habit.

In the realms of pedantry that would also be incorrect given the integer arithmetic applied

I did indeed messup with the layout but was correct with the mileage ... no missing 6 points that I can tell .

1681 + (1681 / 4 ) + (1681/2 ) =
1681 + 841 + 421 = 2943
Multiply by 7 = 20601

To keep the pedant happy , I will correct the formula to


(5 * ( 1681 + ( ⌈1681 / 4⌉ ))) + (4 * ( 1681 + ( ⌈1681 /4⌉ ) + ( ⌈1681/4⌉ ))) + (7 * ( 1681 + ( ⌈1681 /4⌉ ) + ( ⌈1681/2⌉ )))

=(5 * ( 1681 + 421 ) ) + ( 4 * (1681 + 421 + 421)) + ( 7 * (1681 + 421 + 841))

=(5 * 2102 ) + (4 * 2523) + ( 7 * 2943)

=10510 + 10092 + 20601

=41203

This assumes that the base miles applied to AA is 1681. The Qantas mileage calculator shows the mileage to be 1682, so could be an extra 16 miles to be added giving 41219

I cannot see any plusses with crediting this to Qantas, only negatives with a lower mileage earning for the trip and a much higher redemption cost ; add on to that the fuel fines applied by Qantas for their international flights, AA seems to come out well ahead

Dave

 

[medhead]

In the realms of pedantry that would also be incorrect given the integer arithmetic applied

The applied integer makes no difference, it is still a 50% or 75% bonus whether you add the base miles for the segments first or last. My quality Sir Joh education taught me that back in the day

I did indeed messup with the layout but was correct with the mileage ... no missing 6 points that I can tell .

1681 + (1681 / 4 ) + (1681/2 ) =
1681 + 841 + 421 = 2943
Multiply by 7 = 20601

Sorry, that was my Sir Joh english education - "miss placed" should ahve been misplaced. You orignally wrote 20061 - hence misplaced 6 not missing. I also used the QF calculator to get 20608 - should have used your number.

 

[Dave Noble]

Sorry, that was my Sir Joh english education - "miss placed" should ahve been misplaced. You orignally wrote 20061 - hence misplaced 6 not missing. I also used the QF calculator to get 20608 - should have used your number.

I see I see. That makes sense. I read it that you had calculated based on 1681 and that the calc came out higher.

The applied integer makes no difference, it is still a 50% or 75% bonus whether you add the base miles for the segments first or last. My quality Sir Joh education taught me that back in the day

It matters whether you calculate the bonuses individually or whether you combine them to a single calculation which was where I had assumed the difference in calcs had come

Take a situation where the base mileage = 1001

⌈1001 * 1.75⌉ = 1752


1001 + ( ⌈ 1001 * 0.5 ⌉ ) + ( ⌈ 1001 * 0.25 ⌉ ) = 1001 + 501 + 251 = 1753

Since 1753 ≠ 1752 ( or at least that's what they taught us in Eggland ) then it does matter whether you add the 50% bonus and then the 25% bonus individually rather than just apply as a 75% bonus


Regardless of the mathematical errata , I still think that the OP would be well served in ensuring that he maintain the AA Platinum status rather than collect to QF

Dave

 

[medhead]

Since 1753 ≠ 1752 ( or at least that's what they taught us in Eggland ) then it does matter whether you add the 50% bonus and then the 25% bonus individually rather than just apply as a 75% bonus

Arh, that's a rounding off matter. I was more trying to say that 1.25*1.25 actually works out as a 56% bonus not 50%, for example. Didn't have any issue with the numbers, ball park is fine by me.

Regardless of the mathematical errata , I still think that the OP would be well served in ensuring that he maintain the AA Platinum status rather than collect to QF

Dave

Sound advice and I defer to your superior knowledge on that.

 

[djfuzz]

I used to be AA EXP (well still am until Feb) but recently switched back to QF (I was comped to WP) due to better seating on domestic flights and it will be easier to retain WP.

One of the key benefits for me is the trips with mrssimongr and babygr.

I've often wondered this after reading your posts Simon - how exactly did you get WP comped? I didn't think QF did status matching...?

 

[serfty]

I've often wondered this after reading your posts Simon - how exactly did you get WP comped? I didn't think QF did status matching...?

simongr has posted elsewhere in this site with an overview of how/why this came to be.

 

[simongr]

I've often wondered this after reading your posts Simon - how exactly did you get WP comped? I didn't think QF did status matching...?

I work for a large corporate, my boss's boss got very aggravated by QF so they made him CL, I wasn't getting good seats as a AA EXP and QF said "the only thing we can suggest is that you switch join QF" - I asked (cheekily) if they would match to EXP and they said yes (I think they were worried about losing the overall contract so are being very friendly to us at the moment).

 

[chrisb]

Do you plan to be able to maintain the status? QF would give you a soft landing through Gold, adding an extra free year of QP access - if that's important to you.

 

[simongr]

I am pretty sure of making WP in the 2009/2010 qualifying year so will retain WP until Sep 2011 at this stage. I think the likelihood of retaining past then is pretty small... for the three years after that then hopefully back on track

 

[zeppelin]

Thanks for all your thoughts, and the rather detailed discussion of the mathematics :shock:

I have decided to go with Dave's suggestion and credit to AA. While it would be nice to get to OW sapphire and enjoy a better lounge on the occasions I do fly in economy, the extra points and value of the AA program are worth more to me.

And in any case, I'm now enjoying my time in the lovely city of Perth!