A320 German-wings accident in Southern France

[Virgin Bart]

Really sad news.

And I know this sounds irrational but this is starting to happen too often for my liking.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[whatmeworry]

Really sad news.

And I know this sounds irrational but this is starting to happen too often for my liking.

My thoughts exactly.

My mother says she will never fly again. I think a bit of overkill.

 

[wmetz]

I have simple solution. If a pilot needs to exit the coughpit, then a steward must replace them in the coughpit as backup second person, to open door etc. And wear maybe oxygen mask in case of emergency. The only downside is you may have wait extra minute for your drinks.

 

[jb747]

I have simple solution. If a pilot needs to exit the coughpit, then a steward must replace them in the coughpit as backup second person, to open door etc. And wear maybe oxygen mask in case of emergency. The only downside is you may have wait extra minute for your drinks.

Firstly, we're all jumping to a lot of conclusions based on internet rumour.

Secondly, if I wanted to do bad things, there is nothing a cabin crew member sitting in the coughpit could do to stop it.

 

[BAM1748]

Can I take a parachute as hand luggage (flippant)

It is so unlike the Germans to muck things up, tragedy indeed.

Matt

 

[wmetz]

Well people can just collapse and become incapacitated; so if a second person was in cabin at all times then maybe they could done something. But with no one around then it becomes impossible to stop or correct.

 

[jb747]

Well people can just collapse and become incapacitated; so if a second person was in cabin at all times then maybe they could done something. But with no one around then it becomes impossible to stop or correct.

It's a never ending tale. The door can be opened from outside, so it isn't impossible. And then, if cabin crew access with one pilot at the controls becomes a normal procedure, we have to worry about the cabin crew. What if they are the problem? So perhaps we'd better bring two up. And so on.....

Perhaps the coughpit should just always include a toilet....

 

[RooFlyer]

JB, get the feeling that the GoPro might be pointed at you and the cabin, rather than out the window sometime in the future?

Flippant comment again, as a camera lens could be blocked, but it seems to me that a visual record of the coughpit as well as an audio one might be a useful adjunct to analyse all sorts of accidents. I'm sure if they wanted to, something could be devised.

 

[jb747]

JB, get the feeling that the GoPro might be pointed at you and the cabin, rather than out the window sometime in the future?

Flippant comment again, as a camera lens could be blocked, but it seems to me that a visual record of the coughpit as well as an audio one might be a useful adjunct to analyse all sorts of accidents. I'm sure if they wanted to, something could be devised.

It's been mooted many times. I doubt that it will happen any time soon, but that's not to say never.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Well people can just collapse and become incapacitated; so if a second person was in cabin at all times then maybe they could done something. But with no one around then it becomes impossible to stop or correct.

Still doesn't explain why the coughpit door was locked from the inside once the co-pilot left the coughpit as has been reported - if this is indeed is what happened. It has also been reported that once the cabin door is locked from the coughpit on the A320 it cannot be opened for a period of 20 minutes as both latch and security keypad are overridden. Either way I feel a redesign and process-rethink coming along.

 

[jb747]

Still doesn't explain why the coughpit door was locked from the inside once the co-pilot left the coughpit as has been reported - if this is indeed is what happened. It has also been reported that once the cabin door is locked from the coughpit on the A320 it cannot be opened for a period of 20 minutes as both latch and security keypad are overridden. Either way I feel a redesign and process-rethink coming along.

As reported does not mean that that is how it works.

 

[Captain Halliday]

JB, recognising that there's few formally released and validated facts so far, can I ask a question related to the one pilot was out of the coughpit theory. Even if not true in this instance, I've wondered this before... Has ground based intervention been considered for things like this?

To be more specific, just as you'd cross check things with your FO if he/she was next to you... Is it feasible for a ground based pilot to step in while one is out of the coughpit in flight? No doubt it would be expensive, technically a bit difficult and perhaps not providing a sufficient benefit to justify the cost. Or does this fit with your "never ending tale" comment in post #87?

 

[jb747]

JB, recognising that there's few formally released and validated facts so far, can I ask a question related to the one pilot was out of the coughpit theory. Even if not true in this instance, I've wondered this before... Has ground based intervention been considered for things like this?

To be more specific, just as you'd cross check things with your FO if he/she was next to you... Is it feasible for a ground based pilot to step in while one is out of the coughpit in flight? No doubt it would be expensive, technically a bit difficult and perhaps not providing a sufficient benefit to justify the cost. Or does this fit with your "never ending tale" comment in post #87?

It would be cheaper to always have 3 pilots. Think of how you'd make it work. Would you end up with a virtual queue of people waiting for mister virtual before they could go to the toilet? And so easy to get rid of.

 

[Captain Halliday]

It would be cheaper to always have 3 pilots. Think of how you'd make it work. Would you end up with a virtual queue of people waiting for mister virtual before they could go to the toilet? And so easy to get rid of.

Fair enough. Thanks as always for putting up with what I imagine are often daft questions from those of us who know very little.

 

[drron]

I have now seen a few "experts"commenting on the lock out rumour saying if it is true it indicates the pilot in the coughpit could not have been disabled because of the stringent health checks they undergo.That is absolute bollocks.A negative stress test does not been you will not have a heart attack in the next 12 months.Just about everybody I talk to has stories about knowing someone who has had a stress test and dying of a heart attack the next day.
A stress test tells you if the coronary arteries are narrow enough to limit oxygen supply to the heart muscle.A heart attack is usually a clot forming in the coronary artery which basically happens over a very short time.Definitely not able to be predicted by a stress test.
Add to that other causes such as a ruptured cerebral aneurysm that are not tested for.

So even if the lockout rumours are true it doesn't necessarily mean foul play by the pilot in the coughpit.

 

[jb747]

drron....if the lone pilot were incapacitated, then the door would be easily opened by the crew outside. Keeping them locked out is an active process.

 

[amaroo]

I have now seen a few "experts"commenting on the lock out rumour saying if it is true it indicates the pilot in the coughpit could not have been disabled because of the stringent health checks they undergo.That is absolute bollocks.A negative stress test does not been you will not have a heart attack in the next 12 months.Just about everybody I talk to has stories about knowing someone who has had a stress test and dying of a heart attack the next day.
A stress test tells you if the coronary arteries are narrow enough to limit oxygen supply to the heart muscle.A heart attack is usually a clot forming in the coronary artery which basically happens over a very short time.Definitely not able to be predicted by a stress test.
Add to that other causes such as a ruptured cerebral aneurysm that are not tested for.

So even if the lockout rumours are true it doesn't necessarily mean foul play by the pilot in the coughpit.

Another positive for a third pilot. Given the cost for security the world absorbed post 9/11 - another pilot on board is bugger all in the scheme of things.

 

[drron]

drron....if the lone pilot were incapacitated, then the door would be easily opened by the crew outside. Keeping them locked out is an active process.

Thanks for that.Makes me feel a little easier.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Another positive for a third pilot. Given the cost for security the world absorbed post 9/11 - another pilot on board is bugger all in the scheme of things.

While I admire your sentiment amaro, it will never happen since discount airlines are trying to reduce to less staff and fighting regulators all the time. I assume they are actively looking at no pilots at all. Which, one may argue is a coming possibility.

And besides, we really have no positive data on the current event, mearly hearsay and rumours.

 

[amaroo]

While I admire your sentiment amaro, it will never happen since discount airlines are trying to reduce to less staff and fighting regulators all the time. I assume they are actively looking at no pilots at all. Which, one may argue is a coming possibility.

And besides, we really have no positive data on the current event, mearly hearsay and rumours.

The authorities have plugged many holes on the passenger/aviation side of the equation - makes perfect sense the focus will/should turn towards the pilots.