A320 German-wings accident in Southern France

[AVC]

It's a never ending tale. The door can be opened from outside, so it isn't impossible. And then, if cabin crew access with one pilot at the controls becomes a normal procedure, we have to worry about the cabin crew. What if they are the problem? So perhaps we'd better bring two up. And so on.....

Perhaps the coughpit should just always include a toilet....

Isn't there a toilet in the 747 flight deck?

If it were a single person with ill intents, the flight deck of the future (which may not be too far in the future the way things are going) may become a "no lone zone" or "two man rule"where an operator is not allowed to be by themselves. A common situation in various manufacturing and military environments whereby it takes more than one man to operate machinery or activate weapons systems.

Then of course there is the reason that missile silo operators used to (and probably still do) wear side arms down in a fortified bunker.

Does the door open in or out on the coughpit?

 

[samh004]

JB, recognising that there's few formally released and validated facts so far, can I ask a question related to the one pilot was out of the coughpit theory. Even if not true in this instance, I've wondered this before... Has ground based intervention been considered for things like this?

To be more specific, just as you'd cross check things with your FO if he/she was next to you... Is it feasible for a ground based pilot to step in while one is out of the coughpit in flight? No doubt it would be expensive, technically a bit difficult and perhaps not providing a sufficient benefit to justify the cost. Or does this fit with your "never ending tale" comment in post #87?

While not real, there was an episode of popular US TV show "Person of Interest" where a plane was landed remotely.

Seems like such a far fetched idea, but then at the same time you do have all those systems onboard the aircraft already doing lots of the work. I think their biggest issue would be maintaining a signal with the ground if this were ever to come to fruition.

I know the Second Officer of old was actually in charge of their own panel and over time these functions were moved to within reach of the Captain/First Officer, but perhaps the role can be brought back, with a smaller role and pay check, to satisfy a requirement to have 2 in the coughpit all the time.

 

[medhead]

Pretty strong rebuttal of this "military" person mentioning this door thing on the radio tonight, driving home from the airport. Completely unsubstantiated person. How are they involved in the investigation, role that sort of thing? Only a very limited number of people would have heard the recording at this early stage? So should be easy to identify from within that group. The reports came out to soon to do anything more than a superficial analysis of the recording.

Don't shoot me over this, I'm just repeating the points made.

Just about everybody I talk to has stories about knowing someone who has had a stress test and dying of a heart attack the next day.

And just think if the bloody doctor didn't go and stress that person's heart the day before. Pretty interesting to chat with a cardiologist over a drink about the study that showed those doing moderate to hard exercise have more heart attacks. (or something like that)

 

[Homer]

So according to the French prosecutor, it seems increasingly likely to be mass murder by the 28 year-old co-pilot. Jesus.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So according to the French prosecutor, it seems increasingly likely to be mass murder by the 28 year-old co-pilot. Jesus.

yeah

If that turns out to be true, makes you feel pretty angry.

In response to a reporter's question, the prosecutor said he will not refer to it as suicide. 'Suicide' he said 'is usually done alone, not taking 150 people with you'.

 

[amaroo]

Stupid F@#*! Time to turn the heat on pilots - they are now the weakest link in the chain.

 

[Homer]

Stupid F@#*! Time to turn the heat on pilots - they are now the weakest link in the chain.

I don't think it's wise to condemn an entire profession. How many flights have there been without this issue? Millions. How many flights have there been where this issue is suspected? Two or three? I'll take those odds every day.

 

[amaroo]

I don't think it's wise to condemn an entire profession. How many flights have there been without this issue? Millions. How many flights have there been where this issue is suspected? Two? Three? If pilots are the weakest link, I'll take those odds every day.

Every passenger is treated as a threat- how many billions fly a year? When you eliminate every weak link in the chain, you look for the next one - pilots are the next one IMHO!

 

[ExcuseMyFrench]

I'm reading the french news and the details emerging are just awful

The only small "comfort" is that the passengers only realized something was wrong very shortly before the impact.

 

[kpc]

I'm reading the french news and the details emerging are just awful

The only small "comfort" is that the passengers only realized something was wrong very shortly before the impact.

Sounding like mass murder and copilot suicide. ... this is really going to shake the airline industry! http://mobile.news.com.au/world/ger...to-destroy-plane/story-fndir2ev-1227280413638

 

[opusman]

Every passenger is treated as a threat- how many billions fly a year? When you eliminate every weak link in the chain, you look for the next one - pilots are the next one IMHO!

Really the logical conclusion to this argument is that no humans at all should be allowed on aircraft, and they should be fully automated and carry only freight.

 

[Saab34]

Truly shocking.

Now the big question...Why? Financial issues? According to reports he only had 630hrs, cadet first officer. Usually these Cadets go into the Jets with debts up to 150k

I can't even imagine the horror the Captain trying to get back in was going through, not to mention passengers seeing it unfold outside the window.

 

[amaroo]

Really the logical conclusion to this argument is that no humans at all should be allowed on aircraft, and they should be fully automated and carry only freight.

BS! Aviation is the benchmark for continual improvement. Pilots are now just the weakest link .... won't be that hard to rectify.

 

[ExcuseMyFrench]

the french prosecutor also mentioned that while the two pilots had a friendly and amicable chat, moments before the main pilot left the cabin he briefed the copilot on the rest of the flight. The copilot answers were then described as short and laconic.

Not sure what this means.

I feel so sad, confused and angry right now.

 

[mannej]

BS! Aviation is the benchmark for continual improvement. Pilots are now just the weakest link .... won't be that hard to rectify.

Wow these last few posts have been scathing with cynicism - whilst the human will always be seen as the weakest link, I am not so sure rectifying things will be as easy as you suggest.

 

[amaroo]

Wow these last few posts have been scathing with cynicism - whilst the human will always be seen as the weakest link, I am not so sure rectifying things will be as easy as you suggest.

Scathing ... cynicism!

9/11 resulted in severe, harsh and immediate action for billions of the travelling public. Pilots have now been implicated in the mass murder of hundreds of innocents over a very short period, with the likelihood of copycat repeats being high.

Pilots need to be viewed with the upmost caution - just like passengers have been for the past 14 years. Nothing sensational or scathing or cynicism about it - it's just fact.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hopefully out of the investigation there will be some recommendations on how to mitigate risks going forward. Perhaps a minimum of two people on the flight deck at all times, or prevention of enabling the locking override without dual input.

We don't accept a 'one in a million' chance with a mechanical error, nor should we in this circumstance if it turns out as currently feared.

 

[Flying mermaid]

We have known unfortunately a number of people who have committed suicide and I totally understand that there are all sorts of pressures that lead you to that despair. I just don't understand this more recent trend of so much hatred and rage that you need to take hundreds of strangers with you. All the gun massacres in the USA, this one - we just seem to be failing as a society.

 

[mannej]

Scathing ... cynicism!

9/11 resulted in severe, harsh and immediate action for billions of the travelling public. Pilots have now been implicated in the mass murder of hundreds of innocents over a very short period, with the likelihood of copycat repeats being high.

Pilots need to be viewed with the upmost caution - just like passengers have been for the past 14 years. Nothing sensational or scathing or cynicism about it - it's just fact.

No, it is opinion, not fact. Scathing as it is.
Pilots? Even if you are counting MH370, the number of "mass-murders" in this method is still very low, and not unique to the last twelve months or so (Egypt or Silk air? - how many copy cats from those two?)

Perhaps a touch of perspective would be an idea?

 

[amaroo]

Imagine the result is this SF decided to fly into a school, hospital, city.

It's getting very obvious that things need to change!