747 Jumbo Jet going cheap these days

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Makes you wonder why QF would defer fuel efficient A380's and spend money refurbishing relatively fuel hungry 747's. I wonder where the balance of capital cost vs operating expenses lies and how their calculations will hold up into the future.

Once again, QF seem to be swimming against the tide.
 
I would think that the economics of going to 380 versus the capex has been run and been found to be not enough to justify proceeding with the new airframes at the present time. Also I think that the 380 loses a lot of it's competitiveness at sectors above 8 hours/
 
Makes you wonder why QF would defer fuel efficient A380's and spend money refurbishing relatively fuel hungry 747's. I wonder where the balance of capital cost vs operating expenses lies and how their calculations will hold up into the future.

Once again, QF seem to be swimming against the tide.

Because putting a A380 on a route where you cannot fill more than a jumbos worth of seats just means your spending 20% more for no gain, without a more efficient same cap option such as a 777, there are not many options in that scenario. I think the real story is how few large aircraft have been ordered recently, the real action is in the Dreamliner area where frequency wins over capacity.
 
Because putting a A380 on a route where you cannot fill more than a jumbos worth of seats just means your spending 20% more for no gain, without a more efficient same cap option such as a 777, there are not many options in that scenario. I think the real story is how few large aircraft have been ordered recently, the real action is in the Dreamliner area where frequency wins over capacity.

Exactly, the bottom line is that it still costs more to fly an A380 over a given route than it does to fly a 744. So if the A380 flies with 50+ empty seats, then the A380 is costing more per passenger in fuel, than does a 744 with same number of pax. The A380 is only more fuel efficient if it is full (or almost full) - and this is why QF is putting more Y seats on the refurbed A380s, and the A380s will only fly on routes where QF believes it can achieve a very high passenger load (occupancy rate).
 
I would think that the economics of going to 380 versus the capex has been run and been found to be not enough to justify proceeding with the new airframes at the present time. Also I think that the 380 loses a lot of it's competitiveness at sectors above 8 hours/

Seems to be a school of thought that fuel prices are king and fuel prices only will dictate fleet choices. While no-doubt fuel prices and aircraft efficiency are important - the other stuff that some people don't think about is capital cost. New aircraft are extremely expensive (capital intensive) purchases, so with the decreased profits and ability of airlines to fund brand new aircraft (ie. banks not willing to lend money) that introduces other commercial considerations.

It is a bit of a chicken and egg argument about the most profitable airlines having the youngest and most efficient fleet, and less profitable airlines often having older and less efficient fleets. Add in government distortions like different tax and depreciation schedules, government ownership and stuff like Ch.11 Bankruptcy and its very hard to measure apples with apples.

Agree with some of the comments that A380's are excellent "hub-buster" or slot constrained aircraft, but once you start thinking about direct point to point traffic without slot constraints then the A330 A350 and B777 start to make sense. Its been interesting that frequency rather than a few large flights a week has been an area of competition between airlines, with older widebody services often replaced by more frequent narrowbody services.

Also interesting to see that although fuel prices are important - the growth of more narrowbodies with more frequencies has told us an economic lesson in the value of labour - particularly flight crews. You only have to read about some of the salaries in the US airlines (down to US$16K pa) and the surplus of pilots to see interesting market forces at work. But labour costs are still trivial but becoming more globalized, although there is no doubt that cabin crew costs between say SE asian crew and Australian crew would be noticeble.

I have heard that the new B747-8 is fairly cost competative to other long range aircraft - especially if you could pick them up cheap. If you knew that fuel prices were going to drop or Airbus were to go broke and/or the airline market grow quickly, a very contrarian and bullish sentiment at the moment, then you would do well buying up a big part of the B747-8 production line now...
 
If I widen my driveway I could get one as the ultimate man-cave..... :D

Under-wing areas would be great for summer drinks in the shade!
 
I noticed that no one has mentioned cargo capacity of the two aircraft.

B747 has always had waaaaay greater payload capacity than A380, and airlines can still make a fair bit of money off cargo, even on pax flights.
 
Interesting to note BA has 55 747’s and is only ordering 12 A380’s, does anyone know what they’ll actually be replacing the 747’s with, or has that order perhaps not yet come about because they’re waiting for something else to be developed?

Boeing 747-8 | Jumbo jets fall out of favour

I am amazed with the huge difference in fuel cost between A380 and 747s.

It compared an old 747 to a new A380 though, I wonder how much closer they are if you compare the new 747-8.

QF already has enough A380's to run on the routes that they want them to

Sad part is though that they can’t run them on the routes they want to open, like to DFW, so why not compliment the A380’s with new 747-8’s…
 
It will be a very sad day indeed when there are no more 747 to fly in or watch on a take off roll. Hopefully the -8i will keep the legend alive for a bit longer.

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going !
 
It's my birthday next month. Surely you guys can all chip in a few (million) bucks and buy me one? ;)
 
Interesting to note BA has 55 747’s and is only ordering 12 A380’s, does anyone know what they’ll actually be replacing the 747’s with, or has that order perhaps not yet come about because they’re waiting for something else to be developed?

77W's - Not likely as they are "old tech"
A350-1000 or 787-10's maybe
 
It will be a very sad day indeed when there are no more 747 to fly in or watch on a take off roll. Hopefully the -8i will keep the legend alive for a bit longer.

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going !

Indeed

Lufthansa - They should have them for another 20 or so years!
 
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There was a really good doco on Nat Geo Megafactories the other day, 747-8 and some flash-back to building of the Boeing factory and the first 747.
After watching that, l've switched from the A380 to the 747-8.
 
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