24 hour delay, non-existent customer service & pithy cost reimbursement

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chickentalon

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What would be reasonable in this situation? Am I being unreasonable? I had to fill in the form 3 times before someone finally got back to me with a response.

TLDR: 24 hours delay. Costs of ~AUD165. The offer from Qantas came back at $49 + 5,000 points goodwill.

They offered to pay for the lounge access, luggage rewrapping and 2x uber trips in santiago (not sure how they calculated these by my CC statement has all that at $93.98 inc the bank fees.)
They wouldn't cover the Uber in Sydney, meals or the points i used to upgrade.



Here is my letter to Qantas:



In short; That was the worst handling of a delay I've ever experienced, by a wide margin. My wife is 7 months pregnant with our first, so it couldn't have come at a worse time for me.


If Qantas is going to fly a 25+ years old plane then you need to have a lot more people on the ground to help out with the delays. I'm all for safety first, and I do appreciate it. But there must be a balance between replacing very old planes and seriously inconveniencing your customers.


- We flew HK->SYD on this plane 10 August 2015. I organised Premium Econ for my staff, who were also flying back from Santiago this time. Similar issue with the old 747, broken plane. We all scored complimentary downgrades to economy and lost a day as a result. So there was much discussion about flying Qantas again, I convinced them to stick with Qantas, seems I'm an idiot and rather unpopular now.


- QF27 Flight over to Santiago was delayed, we missed our connecting flight and were delayed getting to the conference. It meant that my company missed out on setting up in the prime spots for our stall, hugely disappointing.




Now we come to QF28. Not really much of surprise that there are further issues with the plane.
Thank god I used 50,000 of my QFF points to upgrade so I had a bit of room and could work for some of the 5 hours sitting on the tarmac. One of my staff in premium econ did not even have a working entertainment screen.
On the ground and waiting for things to get fixed was ok. the crew handled it as best that they could. I did take a walk down the back of the plane and those guys were suffering badly, it felt like +30c.


After we got off the plane it was a total mess. They told us that qantas staff would be waiting in the arrivals hall, when we collected our luggage we couldn't find anyone, fortunately, we overheard someone say "area 5", so we headed there and waited in the cold, eventually we were bussed to a hotel near the airport. At the hotel it was ridiculous, there was 2 check-in staff for 3 full busloads of passengers, they took about 5min to process each passenger. We waited in the 5c cold because the queue was out the door of the hotel, didn't check-in until an hour and a half of waiting. It's 9:30pm a this point, 9 hours after boarding the broken plane.


Once we did check in, we were given a voucher to the restaurant, which had another huge queue that wasn't going anywhere. So hungry we decided to get in a taxi to a restaurant, after driving around the industrial area it appears as though all the places were closed at 10pm, so we bought some chips from a corner store and taxied back to the hotel. It was 11pm, some PAX were still in the queue to check in, they had been waiting for 3 hours in the line.


Still no information on what to do the next day, so I called Qantas and was told to taxi back to the airport, got there 3 hours before the departure time but the airport was empty of QF staff.


Much walking around and eventually we were able to check in. I had to pay again for my staff to use the LATAM lounge. The screens in the airport displayed a 12noon departure time, but then changed to 1pm. This was confusing as the lounge staff were announcing boarding..... lucky we went to the gate because the plane was indeed going to leave at 12. However, some of the other pax must have been confused, because passengers were missing and we had to wait further on the plane.


I've had similar dramas with other carriers, but never has it been handled so badly. I think you should:
- credit me at least the 50k points I used for my upgrade
- reimburse for the Ubers, baggage rewrapping and LATAM lounge fee for one of my staff
- CLP 8,000 luggage re-wrapping, all had to be unwrapped to get back through customs
- CLP 6,029 Uber to find food late at night
- CLP 11,478 Uber back to airport next day
- USD $30, re-entry to latam lounge the next day
- AUD $62.69 uber the next day home as my wife was no longer available
- Meals, can't remember what we spent, no reciepts from the corner store. Would maybe be $15
- do something seriously nice for my staff, they have been screwed by qantas every time. They busted their cough to help secure overseas sales for my company, one of them missed his birthday (the 12th June) with his family.



Things I recon you need to fix;
- That plane is old. Aviation museum old. Retire it.
- You need to have more staff on the ground to be ready for delays like this. The staff on the ground should hang around to help. there were three hotels booked, you should have someone at each of them to help people check in.
- You need to let people know what the hell is going on. You've got my email, my phone. Send me something to tell me what to do. I shouldn't have to call to find out that I need to get a taxi back to the airport.
- You need to help people notify those waiting for their arrival, I was lucky in that I have good roaming, so I could let my family know. I also loaned my phone to PAX, there was no help for them from Qantas.
- the qantas online customer care feeback form doesn't appear to be working from OS. there is no confirmation, every time you submit the page just reloads.
- Better communications with the airport. When we arrived the next day the terminal screens said 12noon departure, then they updated to 1pm. This caused 1 PAX to be late, they nearly unloaded their bags!


Otherwise, The flight crew did as best they could. I got the same sense from the pilot, she tried everything she could.
 
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This was the actual content of the letter you sent to QF? I just want to be sure as I find it a little difficult to work out exactly what happened. It seems the plane was delayed overnight, you were put up in a hotel, returned to the airport and flew home 24 hours later. Your main concern was the poor way this was handled and the lack of information provided. Is that correct?
 
I am confused why you want points back for an upgrade?

I also doubt QF would reimburse a business expense such as lounge access costs - that's a business decision you're making, and paid for (one presumes) by the business. As are the ubers (though I am confused you also mentioned getting a taxi to try to find food?)

I find the language in the not-so-short leter to be a bit more emotive ("You need to tell people what the hell is going on") and so on. Also telling them to retire an aircraft? Good luck. :) (though they are retiring the 744's as the 787's come online).
 
It was a bit ranty. Hopefully this clears it up.

20 months prior (aug 2015). Booked myself and staff in Premium Economy HKG -> SYD on an old 747. Aircraft broke down, we scored complimentary downgrades to econ, delayed 1 day and were re-routed via BNE.

June 2017, similar, booked myself and staff in PE SCL -> SYD. The day prior I used points to move from PE to business. 26 year old 747 again broke down, they attempted to fix the aircraft while keeping us on it for 5 hours. In the end, they couldn't locate anyone to sign-off the repairs on a Sunday, you'd think they would have known this at the start? The captain ran out of time she could be on duty, so we overnighted in Santiago and flew out the next day.

Costs ~$165
  • Uber around Santiago to try and find some food: At 9:30pm we obtained vouchers for the hotel restaurant which was overwhelmed. Would have been another 2+ hour wait. So we grabbed an uber to try and find something.
  • Meals: I'd estimate we spent about $15 for the 3 of us.
  • Uber back to the airport from the hotel, as I was told to do by CS over the phone.
  • Luggage re-wrapping: Luggage had to be re-wrapped before the flight again. Customs cut it open for inspection when we had to de-plane.
  • LATAM Lounge: I paid for 1 staff member to re-enter the LATAM lounge a second time before the rescheduled flight.
  • Uber in Sydney as my planned pickup couldn't make it.

This wasn't weather related or outside Qantas control, so I see them as responsible. I would like to know what's reasonable to expect in terms of compensation for this delay. What has been the experience of others?
 
June 2017, similar, booked myself and staff in PE SCL -> SYD. The day prior I used points to move from PE to business. 26 year old 747 again broke down, they attempted to fix the aircraft while keeping us on it for 5 hours. In the end, they couldn't locate anyone to sign-off the repairs on a Sunday, you'd think they would have known this at the start? The captain ran out of time she could be on duty, so we overnighted in Santiago and flew out the next day.

OK but are you suggesting somehow the upgrade did not hold on the retimed departure? it seems like you didn't get downgraded this time yet you're demanding the points for the upgrade? Again I'm confused.

I doubt QF will pay for your ubers to go find food given they organised a hotel and meal voucher.. now sure, I get it, after all that time you're hungry and don't want to wait for hours for probably bad food, but I am sure QF will see that part differently.

As I noted, I think you will find little sympathy for the lounge access fees (and if you were in J, could you not have guested in your staff on class of service grounds? maybe they don't allow a guest I suppose) but you may get lucky

I agree QF is responsible and you should get reasonable costs reimbursed.. you may find they have a different view on what they consider "reasonable" :)

good luck!

(btw there is also, hopefully, some form of travel insurance?)
 
OK but are you suggesting somehow the upgrade did not hold on the retimed departure? it seems like you didn't get downgraded this time yet you're demanding the points for the upgrade? Again I'm confused.

Upgrade was fine on the re-scheduled flight, I was suggesting this be reimbursed as a form of compensation. Given the free downgrade they gave me on a previous flight.

I doubt QF will pay for your ubers to go find food given they organised a hotel and meal voucher.. now sure, I get it, after all that time you're hungry and don't want to wait for hours for probably bad food, but I am sure QF will see that part differently.

I didn't see waiting for the hotel restaurant a further 2 hours as reasonable, it would have been close to midnight (if ever) and we were exhausted. It was chaos at the hotel and we'd already waited in the freezing cold for ages to check-in.

As I noted, I think you will find little sympathy for the lounge access fees (and if you were in J, could you not have guested in your staff on class of service grounds? maybe they don't allow a guest I suppose) but you may get lucky

I was travelling with 2 staff, I could guest 1 of them in as a WP. I see what you're saying about this being a discretionary cost. I recon it's legitimate to claim given that I wouldn't have been in the airport a second time if it wasn't for the delay.

(btw there is also, hopefully, some form of travel insurance?)


Yes, have travel insurance, just not keen to claim on the company policy due to the premium changing next year. You pay for it in the end with insurance companies!
 
Sorry, yes that letter is way too emotional. I sympathis with the experience, I would have been headless too. But you need to stick to the facts in the letter, then sign off by asking them what they will do to convince you to fly with them again.
I imagine that there isnt much they can do when such 'catastrophies' occur, the logistics of manageing that many people are pretty tough, like any business, but there is no excuses for the after the fact customer service or lack thereof. Welcome to the new Qantas!

What I think is reasonable compensation, is to refund your flight, but of course they are never going to do that.
 
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Upgrade was fine on the re-scheduled flight, I was suggesting this be reimbursed as a form of compensation. Given the free downgrade they gave me on a previous flight.

I can't see that happening. The flight was in 2015. If you wanted compensation it should have been sorted then not 15 months later.

I didn't see waiting for the hotel restaurant a further 2 hours as reasonable, it would have been close to midnight (if ever) and we were exhausted. It was chaos at the hotel and we'd already waited in the freezing cold for ages to check-in.
True but can't see QF coughing up as you were provided with vouchers
 
You keep mentioning the 25 year old plane in your complaint letter. If this was VH-OJM, you'll be pleased to know that she was retired yesterday.
 
If the letter to QF waffles on (i.e age is not relevant here, an aircraft of any age can have technical issues), I can see how they have provided a canned response.

It is a perfect example of how not to earn empathy from the person reading it on the other side.

Concise and to the point wins you more friends.

Points like this
- do something seriously nice for my staff, they have been screwed by qantas every time. They busted their cough to help secure overseas sales for my company, one of them missed his birthday (the 12th June) with his family.

is just waffle and not really needed in the letter of complaint.

If you feel unhappy with the response, I'd suggest being concise and to the point. Whilst I agree with RichardMEL that QF will not pay out on things such as the wrapping, lounge access or Uber to pay for your search for food, they may reconsider the offer presented.

If you present them with a similar letter to the one in the OP, I can guarantee a take it or leave it response.
 
Reading this thread it seems that QF's strategy of "ignoring customers until they go away" is working. There is such a level of apathy about what little we should expect from QF when things go wrong. Exactly what QF wants.

Yes, it's tiresome and frustrating for an individual to battle the bohemouth, and yes I'm sure QF get plenty of ludicrous complaints to sift through, but QF shouldn't just dismiss these genuine cases with a template reply or paltry offer. As a flying community it only hurts us if we keep letting them.
 
Don't confusing pointing out a poor complaint letter with apathy.

The advice to the OP is loud and clear, a letter that waffles will not get them far, they have a better bargaining tool if they are clear and concise in their letter of complaint.
 
Getting the message. I was pretty pissed off when I wrote that and not the way I should have complained.

I've never had a delay handled so badly by a full service airline and I was filthy with them.
 
Reading this thread it seems that QF's strategy of "ignoring customers until they go away" is working.

I appear to be getting this treatment right now as well with my missing points claim.
 
The real pity here that no effort is made to appease a WP pax: yes, I agree the letter is not well worded, but at the same time it still feels like a poor and uncaring response.
 
The real pity here that no effort is made to appease a WP pax: yes, I agree the letter is not well worded, but at the same time it still feels like a poor and uncaring response.

Well, I did note that they upgraded quite a few to bus on the rescheduled flight. I'd take a guess and say that they were probably WP or above. The bus cabin was 35% full on the original flight and 60% full on the re-scheduled.

The CS manager on the flight did say to me that they'd be giving me 5,000 points as a gesture of good will, and I overheard a similar offer to a few others. Those never came through though, well not until I filled in the feedback form a few more times and they got in touch with me 7 weeks later.
 
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