165000 Worthless Qantas FF points

Discussion in 'Qantas Frequent Flyer Program' started by fireant, Sep 11, 2005.

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  1. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
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    My Wife has 165k in Qantas points.

    We just tried to make a booking from Mt ISA to Perth return for a couple of family members.

    When we hit the submit button we were asked for $450 in taxes and charges.

    We are not interested in traveling ourselves and just like the opportunity to help out family. Now they are apparently worthless to us.

    We went to the qantas store looked at redeeming them for goods.
    The DVD player on the page is $800 + points ... I can buy one for around $500 here ... what a saving ... not.

    Anyone want to buy them ? Cheap !! email me at fireant@myrealbox.com

    Your FF program is a crock Qantas and I will be looking for every opportunity to screw your company by choosing others over you at every turn !

    I think the first step will be to lobby management in BHP (her company) to give the employees a choice of airline. There are savings to be made here !!
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  2. aus_flyer

    aus_flyer Established Member

    Feb 15, 2005
    1,361
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    I can understand your frustration.

    Business class fares are becoming more attractive.

    160,000 points will get you 2 return business class fares to somewhere like Fiji, so maybe consider something like that?
     
  3. straitman

    Moderator

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    fireant.

    Do a search through the forums and you'll find a break down of the various taxes & charges. This has been discussed on several occasions over the last year or so. Whilst the taxes and charges are a pain in the axxx I'm sure the $450 you mentioned is considerably cheaper than buying the tickets up front.

    As for selling the points, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that this is illegal under the FF T & C. In this situation I would suggest you find a relative who would love you to transfer the points to them and transfer the maximum (100,000 pa). If I was a reli, I'd certainly volunteer. :oops:
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest


    you make me laugh.

    :mrgreen:
     
  5. NM

    NM
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    Assuming the routing is Mt Isa - Brisbane - Perth and return, that is 4 sectors each with a fuel surcharge of $26, or $104 for the journey just is fuel surcharges.

    A return ticket is going to cost 50K points each, so you could get 3 for the 165K points available. The taxes/charges for such a ticket (ISA-BNE-PER//PER-BNE-ISA) would include:
    • Fuel Surcharges $104 (4 x $26)
    • WG - Safety and Security ISA $14.00
    • WG - Safety and Security PER $2.78
    • QR - Passenger Service Charge Domestic ISA $17.00
    • QR - Passenger Service Charge Domestic BNE $7.40
    So my estimate of the taxes/charges would be $145.18 per ticket, or $435.54 for 3 tickets.

    The cheapest fare I can find on that route is $585 return including taxes. So for 3 tickets, that would be $1755. So using the FF points is a saving of around $1320. Surely the family members that are getting $1755 worth of tickets are willing to pay the $450 in taxes and charges and still come out $1300 better off :?: .

    And of course if you had booked before 2nd September, the fuel surcharge would have been $6 per sector less, or $72 less for 3 return fares, or $121.18 charges per ticket, or $363.54 for 3 award tickets by my calculations.

    Or if booked before 20th April, the fuel surcharge would have been $12 per sector, or $54 less per ticket, or $168 less for 3 tickets, or $267.54 total charges for 3 tickets, or $89.18 charges per ticket.

    So you can see it is all due to the addition of fuel surcharges to the award tickets - which I personally believe should not be done, but is within the terms and conditions of the program to which we all agreed when we joined the program.
     
  6. Karen

    Karen Intern

    Mar 4, 2005
    58
    0
    Sydney
    You need to think laterally

    Why not get a group D hire care for 3 days (60,000 points) and then 3 nights at the Hyatt on the Gold Coast? (105,000 points). Then you will have used them all up, and have got $800-$900 worth of fun out of it, and it wont have cost you a penny and you'll no longer have to worry about what to do with your "worthless" points.

    From the sounds of it you are enough of a tight arse that that will give you something to talk about for the next five years or so. Positive or negative, I'm not too sure. :roll:
     
  7. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
    14
    0
    Thanks for the replys.

    The fact is we really don't want to fly, to get 165k of them sort of indicates we have had enough of that.

    In years gone past we have given the great majority of our points away.
    Mainly to our dirt poor relations for funerals weddings etc. The family members I was giving this one too are a single mom and my nephew (both who have no way at all of scraping up the $450).

    Now some have said this is me being a tight arse (there are some charming internet people out there arn't there) I would only point out that with ansett it cost us bugger all, virtually free, this mob of gouging bastards are now wanting to give us a discounted ticket .. not the almost free ones we have used in the past.

    I admit they are very cheap considering the full fares ... but not cheap enough to give away. I bet Qantas don't lose a whole lot on the flight with a kickin like that for a "free ticket".

    As for hotels and car hire ... whoopie .. not worth a toss .. I have a nice house and 2 cars .. Thanks very much for the heads up but I don't need any more.

    Thank christ the 200k we have on our Amex is at least convertable to good old cash or toasters...

    Stick your points up your jumper Qantas ... every chance we get we will choose another airline over your's
     
  8. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
    14
    0
    Ya know, what really got up my goat about this was the fact that we had rung and asked them what days they would like to come to Perth.

    We got them all excited sorting out dates and whatnot and then when we came to press the submit button only then did we find out how much it would be !

    In Qantas's defence I suppose that's how its got to be, to book, but even so the fee's are frankly bullshit and make the FF program of no value at all to us ... Ok ... maybe a very small value if we ever do want to travel on a bloody jet to somewhere (unlikely but you never know I suppose).
     
  9. sully

    sully Member

    Jul 31, 2003
    238
    1
    Wolloomooloo, NSW
    Not a very nice thing to say about your relatives, but hey its up to you.

    Like a couple of other posters here I am a bit surprised that you think 165k is useless. And I also struggle with the fact that as you own a house and two cars you don't need a holiday, or that because this vast amount has been accrued that flying is not an option either. To let you in on a little secret, there are possibly a few of us who have more points than the vast sum your wife has.

    What was the purpose of your maiden post anyway? To have a whine about an unavoidable fact? We all know the rules and while the taxes and charges are an impost the cost of flights is still only a fraction of the cost otherwise. Perhaps the fact that Ansett is no longer here is a reason why such costs have to be paid.

    From what I can see the points accrued were not your cost as the flights were paid for by your wife's employer. So you whinge about having to pay something in addition to the nothing the points cost you.

    By the way, you can't be a very experienced internet user if you think Karen's (correct) comments are offensive. Get over it and take a holiday. Oh sorry, I forgot you don't need one.
     
  10. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
    14
    0
    >Not a very nice thing to say about your relatives, but hey its up to you.

    LOL .. yes well ... thats probably not quite what I meant.

    >Like a couple of other posters here I am a bit surprised that you think 165k is useless.

    I think I have explained my reasoning but I will spell it out for you so you have no trouble undersanding. We don't like flying .. anywhere ... ever .. at all. Clear now ?

    >And I also struggle with the fact that as you own a house and two cars you don't need a holiday.

    Of course I do .. you suggesting that a plane trip is compulsory to have a holiday ?

    > or that because this vast amount has been accrued that flying is not an option either.

    I didn't say it was vast ..

    >To let you in on a little secret, there are possibly a few of us who have more points than the vast sum your wife has.

    Undoubtably .. and your point is ?

    >What was the purpose of your maiden post anyway? To have a whine about an unavoidable fact?

    Yes is was to vent at Qantas .. for being greedy bastards .. problem ?

    >From what I can see the points accrued were not your cost as the flights were paid for by your wife's employer. So you whinge about having to pay something in addition to the nothing the points cost you.

    OH .. I should be greatfull !. Sorry, we arn't ....


    >By the way, you can't be a very experienced internet user if you think Karen's (correct) comments are offensive. Get over it and take a holiday. Oh sorry, I forgot you don't need one.

    Calling people names is offensive .. I don't think internet skills are either here nor there.... you dumb bastard (get the point?)
     
  11. QF WP

    Moderator

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    I think the personal attacks have now reached the creshendo that I was expecting...I think everybody needs to take a step back. No doubt admin will be looking at the previous posts, warn everybody about what they have said and ask for them to change the posts (or they'll do it for you)

    Remember, whilst we may disagree with what a poster says or feels, don't attack the poster - argue the point.

    fireant, it seems that because of the amount of surcharges, your friend and nephew can't afford to travel ISA/PER. There's no necessity that you have to trump up for the "cost" of buying the tickets - it's just unfortunate that they can't afford it. Spending the points is enough.

    We all dislike the way that extra costs are being added to our fares, but then again without them, we might not have the profitable airlines to fly us around. Everybody must make a profit to make it worthwhile to stay in business.
     
  12. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
    14
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    Fair comments Lindsay .. but I was not the one to start this particular little flame war .. "tight arse" was the first shot then a little defensive move on my part commenting about the charming nature of some posters came next, then the knight in shining armor Sully comming to the aid of the poor damsel in distress and repeating/verifying the previous comments just upped the temperature.

    Hardly my fault really .. but perhaps dumb bastard was a bit strong ... so I withdraw that remark. It was made just to illustrate the point though .....
     
  13. sully

    sully Member

    Jul 31, 2003
    238
    1
    Wolloomooloo, NSW
    Aaah, the joys of forums. Where like minded people can get together and get aggro with each other.

    Great responses fireant. All well considered and brilliantly rebutted. It seems the only point you missed out on responding to was the crux of your problem, ie fees and charges.

    You originally referred to the generosity of Ansett. I agree, in many ways they were superior, in the quality of their lounges, upgrade policies and in-flight service to name a few. The fact the airline disappeared is due in part to some of their policies that saw income failing to exceed expenses. As you may be a non-accountant I will explain that such a condition is not a good thing as it leads to a predicament known in financial circles as a 'loss', being the evil partner in a Profit and Loss account.

    Qantas realises that while flights can be redeemed with points there is still a charge required. It is called business.
     
  14. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
    14
    0
    Stop it your making me blush :lol:

    As for fees and charges .. I don't like em .. that's my response .. call me a whinger or a tight arse but in the past we paid about $60 to fly people from all round Australia to Perth ... it's gone up HEAPS. (seems to have anyway .. correct me if I am wrong).

    We didn't even choke that it was going to cost 100k or thereabouts to get the tickets .. we really don't care how many we use because we place very very little value on them.

    What would have been really usefull would be to have been able to have paid the fees and charges with even more points .. even the whole lot .. would have suited us just fine but that option is not available it seems.

    Anyway I won't poke my tounge at you if you don't at me OK? XX
     
  15. NM

    NM
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    Yes, the charges have gone up heaps in the last year or so. I tried hard to explain that fact was almost completely due to the fuel surcharge imposed by most airlines. Comparing the cost of award tickets under today's economic climate with the cost of similar award tickets pre 2001 is not really a fair comparison. The airlines cost to provide the seat has gone up significantly since then due to the cost of fuel (one of their larger costs) rising so steeply.

    Now my personal belief is that the airline, like most other businesses, should be increasing their base fare cost when their cost base rises, rather than adding a fuel surcharge. The local fruit shop (you know, owned by Con the Fruiterer or similar) doesn't sell his apples for $2.48/kg plus a fuel surcharge of $0.50 because his cost of filling the tank of his transport truck has gone up by 50% in 12 months. If his cost base has risen, he sells his apples for $2.98/kg instead.

    Now I guess it is a little different for airlines given that they often sell their apples long before they have been picked. And they would like us to believe that the high fuel cost is temporary (year, right, as if petrol is going to drop back down below 90c/l ever again). So its a combination of accounting and marketing that allows them to charge us the way they do.

    It is my belief that one of the main reasons the airlines add the fuel surcharge instead of increasing the base fare is so they can charge the surcharge on all tickets including FF award tickets. They make good revenue from the surcharge on award tickets. And of course this additional revenue is more than offset by their increased cost to provide that award ticket.

    I don't like it, but I understand why it is there. The airline's fuel costs have gone up dramatically in the last year or so and that needs to be recouped or they make a loss, and a business that makes a loss for an extended period goes the way of airlines like the beloved Ansett.

    But I really hope the ACCC can step in and make them accept that the higher fuel prices are here to stay and should be incorporated into the base fare price. It is my belief that the only extras that should be permitted to added to any base fare should be government taxes - and the only true taxes are GST and International Departure Tax. All others are imposed by the airlines or airports and I believe should be part of the base fare cost.

    Now, back to the topic. fireant, you have implied in a few of your posts that the $450 was for 2 award tickets. What was the routing? By my calculations, 2 award tickets travelling ISA-BNE-PER should only be around $300 additional charges. So it would appear that the routing may not be as straight forward as that (perhaps ISA-CNS-BNE-PER or ISA-BNE-MEL-PER), and we know that each additional sector is going to be an extra $26 in fuel surcharge.

    Now, I hope I have managed to make my point without offending anyone :lol: .
     
  16. Karen

    Karen Intern

    Mar 4, 2005
    58
    0
    Sydney
    Speaking as an Accountant something which allows you to obtain something else at a discount is not generally referred to as being "worthless". Also speaking as an Accoiuntant, i am really OVER hearing people lament the demise of a company that went under largely as a direct result of its largesse.

    I am sorry that Qantas values its continued operation as a business above your ability to appear as a generous benefactor to your "dirt poor" relatives at its expense. It really shows your generous nature that you are not prepared to assist people significantly worse off than yourself unless it costs you nothing. How could I have been so misguided to refer to you as a tightarse? :oops:

    Here's a thought - offer the points to the relos on the proviso that they pay the fees themselves. That way you only have to give away something you got for free that you don't want yourself, and then no-one can mistake you for being genuinely generous.
     
  17. sully

    sully Member

    Jul 31, 2003
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    Wolloomooloo, NSW
    Hey fireant. Karen makes a good point about your sphincter. Open your wallet instead of the mouth, perhaps sell one of the cars if you need the additional cash for taxes and charges.
     
  18. browski

    browski Established Member

    Sep 8, 2004
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    Well put, NM - Here endeth the lesson (apologies to Sean Connery)

    Unfortunately I can't see this govt giving the ACCC more teeth - we will be waiting a while.
     
  19. BlacKnox

    BlacKnox Active Member

    Jan 29, 2005
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    Well said, though QF shareholders may be biased :p .
     
  20. fireant

    fireant Junior Member

    Sep 11, 2005
    14
    0
    Yes you have made some good points NM I too think that they don't increase the cost base because they just want to gouge a few extra bucks from the FF's.

    Umm.. as for routing it was for 2 adult tickets from Mt Isa , Brisbane, Perth. and reverse ... I think ... or maybe it went to Melbourne .. I am not %100 but $450 was around the price ...
     
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