Qantas FFP - Is there any point for infrequent travellers

[Pierre_a]

Hi Everyone,

I am a UK expat living down under who joined the Qantas FFP some years ago and have begun to build up a stash of points through travel and channeling household spend through credit cards.

Because my travel is leisure only (in Y) I am unlikely to ever build up any meaningful status, at most I travel back to the UK twice a year with potentially a maximum of another 2/3 internal flights - this is the best estimate. I would guess most years I will only travel home once. With this level of travel frequency I will only regularly attain silver and struggle to gain and maintain gold.

My priority is using points to upgrade cabin class but given my lack of status I understand I will always be at the back of the queue, so success here is unlikely. With this in mind am I wasting my time with Qantas? I wonder if I would be better with either another carriers program or just spreading my money around according to the best deal at the time (given Qantas fares are generally at the top end of the spectrum). For example I can get into premium cabins on lower tier carriers for far more affordable $'s (I'm thinking China Southern for example). I've never minded paying a premium for qantas thinking I will get something back, but now I"m not so sure.

I'd appreciate the opinion of more seasoned travelers!

Pierre.

 

[harvyk]

There is always lots and lots of toasters...

QFFP's are a funny thing, there are people whom can do amazing things with only a few thousand points whilst others seem to have trouble with half a million.
All I can suggest is stick around here and learn the ropes, also don't assume that just because you are bronze that they are of no use (my first J upgrade happened when I was a NB, albeit a ADL-CBR)

Also don't assume that points are J or nothing. A friend of mine whom does CBR-MEL a few times a year, as well as gather CC points and does the EDR thing uses his points to get discounts on his CBR-MEL flights (he lives in CBR but his kids live in VIC, so the points make it easier for him to keep in contact). It's prehaps not the AFF way, but it's all about working out what is of value to you and running with it.

 

[opusman]

Do you do any intra-European travel (e.g. on BA) when you're back in the UK? FF redemptions for BA intra-Europe shorthaul can actually be reasonable value as the taxes are quite low and there are no fuel fines.

 

[david1]

I'd imagine a lot of people are in a similar situation to this, I'm interested to see what the more experienced AFF'ers will say about this.

Having predictable travel patterns should make things easier, and let you work out the cost/benefit of different choices.

 

[clazman]

Something to help with your travels

- become a AFF gold member and join the QF club at a discounted rate
- when you fly try and stay with in the One World group
- use your point to upgrade to the premium cabinets

 

[Dawg]

I too am very interested to hear the advice from the elders. I am in a very similar situation as I will be travelling to Ireland yearly (y) with occasional other short Domestic and international flights (after marrying Irish expat). I made SG this year, but don't think it will happen again, and I have settled on mainly sitting at PS or NB.
Over the last few years I have built up a large amount of QFF points and tried for many upgrades but never been successful. I was looking at changing to Emirates after so far receiving 3 EK upgrade "love" but no requested Qantas upgrades. However, Im not confident that I'll make enough points to regularly make the EK upgrade (as they expire after 3 yrs) and my most recent Emirates legs have been very disappointing (eg. only one meal and stale sandwich on last SYD-DXB).
I too wonder if I should stick with Qantas or just go for the best deal at the time and not worry about status, trying for upgrades, looking at LTS in 20yrs and instead save some money. Advice from people who have been in a similar situation would be much appreciated.
Dawg

 

[Pierre_a]

Wow - lots of replies so quickly, many thanks to those who responded.

For me it comes down to valuing the points at a level where they can provide me something I couldn't otherwise afford to purchase - i.e J cabin long haul. That being the case the difference between a flex economy fare to LHR (from MEL) and business sale is about $2,600 so my valuation is over 4 cents per mile. I can pretty much always happily pay cash for domestic/short haul flights (in which I'm not bothered about flying premium cabins) so using points for that would seem a waste to me (and of course I don't need a new toaster!). The trouble is my lack of status is going to make it difficult to crystalise that value.

{climbs on hobby horse} I would assume the vast majority of the millions of members of the FFP are of a similar status and demographic to me. That being the case if a great swath of the members of the customer loyalty scheme are unlikely to be able to access one of the prime benefits of the scheme then the scheme ceases to act as a mechanism to encourage loyalty. Granted we are the low margin customers so I understand there is less incentive to look after us - but there are a lot of us and if we don't have a realistic reason to stay than that loss of volume becomes significant.

Anyway, I have a request in from my current lowly bronze position next month for LHR flight - if that doesn't come through I'll buy half a dozen toasters and a case of wine and be done with it . Then again maybe I"ll obsessively continue asking retailers if they accept amex and hoarding the points anyway.

Pierre.




I gue

 

[opusman]

I would assume the vast majority of the millions of members of the FFP are of a similar status and demographic to me. That being the case if a great swath of the members of the customer loyalty scheme are unlikely to be able to access one of the prime benefits of the scheme then the scheme ceases to act as a mechanism to encourage loyalty.

To be frank, the vast majority of QFF members are happy if they get to redeem a "free" economy flight between MEL/SYD every couple of years. Or get a few $50 Myer gift vouchers. They do not even consider premium travel as an option let alone a goal for using their points.

 

[Buzzard]

When I was NB, only once did I not get a points upgrade from Y to J. This was on a flight from SIN to SYD, a popular leg so not surprised. Every other international flight (and there were a few) I took I was always upgraded. Things may have changed in recent years.

I know you have asked about Qantas, but why not consider skipping over to VA and use family pooling? Give it some thought.

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
For me it comes down to valuing the points at a level where they can provide me something I couldn't otherwise afford to purchase - i.e J cabin long haul. That being the case the difference between a flex economy fare to LHR (from MEL) and business sale is about $2,600 so my valuation is over 4 cents per mile. I can pretty much always happily pay cash for domestic/short haul flights (in which I'm not bothered about flying premium cabins) so using points for that would seem a waste to me (and of course I don't need a new toaster!). The trouble is my lack of status is going to make it difficult to crystalise that value.

{climbs on hobby horse} I would assume the vast majority of the millions of members of the FFP are of a similar status and demographic to me. That being the case if a great swath of the members of the customer loyalty scheme are unlikely to be able to access one of the prime benefits of the scheme then the scheme ceases to act as a mechanism to encourage loyalty. Granted we are the low margin customers so I understand there is less incentive to look after us - but there are a lot of us and if we don't have a realistic reason to stay than that loss of volume becomes significant.

<snip>

Unfortunately you have your eyes set on the same target as very many QFFers who accumulate their points via the slow grind of Y flights, supermarket shopping etc; that is, a long haul J flight or upgrade to J. And as you have concluded, it is very very difficult (but not impossible) for some-one without high status on QFF to snag one of these seats.

I think your conclusion is correct - there is no point persevering with QFF if your goal is a J flight to LHR for instance. You are paying a premium for flying QF with little chance of redeeming for what you see as value. Sorry to put it so bluntly!

That said, if paying that premium now isn't a barrier, than I would persevere ... as long as you maintain some activity, the points won't expire and you may in future be able to get the seat you want (but NEVER count on two on the same flight!) I don't think there is another scheme that will do what you want it to do, either.

 

[Moopere]

{climbs on hobby horse} I would assume the vast majority of the millions of members of the FFP are of a similar status and demographic to me. That being the case if a great swath of the members of the customer loyalty scheme are unlikely to be able to access one of the prime benefits of the scheme then the scheme ceases to act as a mechanism to encourage loyalty.

It seems like a reasonable expectation however, most, if not all of these programs (and certainly QFF) ceased being an actual 'loyalty' scheme many many moons ago. Its nothing but a revenue source now and we do need to keep reminding ourselves of this to help keep perspective.

Granted we are the low margin customers so I understand there is less incentive to look after us - but there are a lot of us and if we don't have a realistic reason to stay than that loss of volume becomes significant.

You'd think, but despite the frustration and disappointment, some value can be gained from the right program, even if its minimal.

I think you've certainly discovered the truth of the situation insofar as your needs go - there are absolutely loads of high status (gold and above) FF members chasing those all too elusive J upgrades - whilst one should never say never, its obviously going to be a frustrating experience to pursue. Have you had a look at any other programs to see if they might be a better fit?

Because your points are coming from CC and other non flying sources we're pretty limited in Australia - you'd probably be able to get a card that earns you Kris miles, virgin points won't probably work for you if you mostly want to redeem internationally at a decent return, so it seems like you're trapped into QFF ... but Amex might work for you as a points warehouse ... instead of directly earning into QFF, which you might struggle to get value from on any given day, pour your points into Membership Rewards (Amex) and transfer those points to another carriers program (I think 6 or 7 to choose from???) when you need to. I prefer to do this rather than spreading my earn across several programs.

As for flying China Southern .. yes, competitive airline, competitive pricing ... worth checking out Skyteam?

 

[Pierre_a]

Some good suggestions (and some fair blunt honesty) - thanks all.

I'll certainly look at VA. I confess I had not looked at their international fares on the basis that historically Virgin Atlantic's kangaroo route pricing from the UK was always astronomical. But I see that VA are mostly partnering with Singapore/Etihad and offering sensible pricing structures, so perhaps there is a potential alternative there. Also ff it means transiting via Singapore rather than dubai thats a bonus.

Warehousing with amex had crossed my mind as an alternative solution. I'll have to do some research to see if any of the alternative programs would better suit my ambitions.

 

[RooFlyer]

There's an amazing AMEX offer with Velocity at the moment - 110,000 points, a free flight and more for signing up the card right now. There is a thread with referral links active at the moment and as long as you fulfil some of the basic requirements, acceptance seems to be coming through very easily. With VA you can transfer points to SQ (when accounts are linked) and when in SQ they open up SQ premium cabin Awards and, I think other Star Alliance airlines going to Europe, such as Thai.

I didn't need another credit card, and am lowly Silver with Velocity FF, but this offer was too good to pass up!

 

[andye]

QFF has some good points for an infrequent flyer (relatively easy to get status, lots of points-earning opportunities outside flying) but a terrible program for long-haul upgrades with no status (given you have to buy an expensive Y seat) and a frustrating one for long-haul premium redemptions (which are relatively expensive for points and copay).
I would favour ignoring loyalty, go with best available fare and use the money saved to buy miles to redeem in other programmes or open credit cards with bonuses (ideally ones with multiple transfer partners).
VA is an easier program to get status with lower threshholds and family pooling. Fewer international destinations albeit with lower copay

 

[trippin_the_rift]

If you're unable to attain status and any meaningful benefits with any frequent flyer program - why not look at cheapest flight of the day?

Imagine this scenario.
You go with Velocity, QFF or whoever and each time you book a flight you're paying $200-$400 more than the cheapest full service carrier at the time.
Over a year this is $1,000 in cash you would be shelling out in return for points that you don't think you'll one day be able to use.

I love frequent flyer marketing programs but you need to know that they are marketing companies - not loyalty programs.
Cash > Points.

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, QF LTS is hardly a goal worth reaching especially if you don't plan on flying very much. I find classic rewards work quite well if travelling solo as I usually book almost as soon as the seats are release. I have not 'paid' for a flight for a long time, but have a variety of F and J classic awards, mostly due to the generosity of those here on AFF who share their time and knowledge. Eg, the US Airways jaunt via GUM to HKG NRT and TPE etc for very few points

snip ... , looking at LTS in 20yrs and instead save some money. Advice from people who have been in a similar situation would be much appreciated.
Dawg

 

[Deleted member]

I suspect you need to be somewhat creative. the obvious is not necessarily the best option, consider one world partners, look at RTW fares, ( via the QF call centre). I am certain there are plenty more options.
BTW how many is "Heaps" of points?

 

[burmans]

Transfer them to your newly found relative (I.e. Me)!

 

[QPProletarian]

Do you do any intra-European travel (e.g. on BA) when you're back in the UK? FF redemptions for BA intra-Europe shorthaul can actually be reasonable value as the taxes are quite low and there are no fuel fines.

You've gotta be kidding me 10,000FFP and £60 for a flight sold as £59 (on sale) or 7,000 BA Miles + £17.50. Air Lingus LON-DUB is like 10,000 and £60 too for a £30 (sale) flight.

 

[Joshua]

There are unfortunately as many different answers and you will have questions. As you allude a lot of playing the loyalty programs is about reaching a critical mass in travel, I find once you have to travel enough it becomes a lot easier. So I would make some general observations: QF and BA with their status credits & tier points respectively provide relatively easy ways to make status if you're flying in paid business or first class. So for example if you flew twice a year to the UK indirectly using the cheaper UL business fares would be enough for the BA equivalent of QF gold. However in your case I'd question whether that would be worth the inconvenience if you're not going to use that status on short hauls/domestic often. In regards to the earn and burn potential, QF are generally poor although being AU based you will be presented with many easy opportunities to earn e.g. CC spend. Because I'm heavily AU to EU flying I've moved well away from QF.

It sounds like you're willing to spend a bit more than the cheapest economy fare. This forum documents fairly well various points buying schemes from foreign programs to then use for cost effective premium class travel. To be honest that would probably be my suggestion going from what you've stated.

If you're stuck with quite a few QF points my suggestion would be to look at awards and not upgrades which you've noted really depend on status & luck. It isn't as hard to get premium travel to Europe as it may first seem, depending on your flexibility. Some EK routes have far better availability and CX for example releases seats late.