Qantas 747 and 767 retirements

[moa999]

I think the answer to this question is they probably haven't got a clue what they are doing and will flip and flop around just as they have done on every fleet development decision since Dixon left.
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Dixon the CEO who decided that fleet development wasn't a priority at all, and instead decided to pay dividends to support the share price post float.

 

[ChrisCunard]

Well to be a little fair, they are having to make guesses on future fleet requirements based on today's market conditions. It would be very difficult to accurately guess what their 2016 fleet requirements will be and yet that's exactly what they are having to do. They are also having to make contingencies in the event that their fleet requirements do not pan out (who could have predicted last year that the B787's would spend most of the first half of this year grounded for instance)

Oh I do agree.There just seem to have been a lot of decisions announced then changed in recent years that aren't typical of other airlines fleet planning, well perhaps they are and just not announced by other carriers?

 

[ChrisCunard]

Dixon the CEO who decided that fleet development wasn't a priority at all, and instead decided to pay dividends to support the share price post float.

I don't know about that. 744ER, 73H, A380, A330 and 787 all ordered during Dixon era?

 

[oz_mark]

Another 4 for Sydney Brisbane, does not leave much for adding capacity, and not all bays are widebody capable.

Which is why I suggested that the 767s will be replaced by a mix of A330s and 737s. Given the right mix, overall capacity will not change.

Consider 3 x 767 in domestic config = 90 Business (30*3) and 672 Economy (224*3)

Replace with 2 x A330 and 1 x 737 = 84 Business (36*2 + 12) and 692 Ecoonmy (268*2 + 156)


and you haven't changed the capacity a lot.

 

[oz_mark]

Dixon the CEO who decided that fleet development wasn't a priority at all, and instead decided to pay dividends to support the share price post float.

Dixon was largely responsible for putting in place the fleet renewal program. He still had to get board approval for any fleet developments, and that may have been a stumbling block.

 

[markis10]

Which is why I suggested that the 767s will be replaced by a mix of A330s and 737s. Given the right mix, overall capacity will not change.

Consider 3 x 767 in domestic config = 90 Business (30*3) and 672 Economy (224*3)

Replace with 2 x A330 and 1 x 737 = 84 Business (36*2 + 12) and 692 Ecoonmy (268*2 + 156)


and you haven't changed the capacity a lot.

You have changed the airport capacity significantly though, an A330 is close to 2x turnaround a 767 does, wont matter too much in the AM when the aircraft are on bay, but in the PM especially Friday its a different story, and its a bit hard to replace 2 for three when your trying to replace 24 aircraft with 12, your 4 A330s short!

 

[oz_mark]

You have changed the airport capacity significantly though, an A330 is close to 2x turnaround a 767 does, wont matter too much in the AM when the aircraft are on bay, but in the PM especially Friday its a different story, and its a bit hard to replace 2 for three when your trying to replace 24 aircraft with 12, your 4 A330s short!

Yes, but there are also the 5 additional 737s.

In any case, one interpretation of the following, is that all 20 A332s will be on domestic duty, so I am not sure domestic is where any cuts will be:

Beginning in late 2014, the Group will reconfigure the interior of 10 Airbus A330-300s and 20 A330-200s with a new flat seat in business class, refreshed economy cabin and a new inflight entertainment offering.

The A330-300s will be operated by Qantas International on its network between Australia and Asia, while the A330-200s will be operated by Qantas Domestic on routes between the east coast and Perth – enabling the final retirement of the Group’s Boeing 767s.

The Group will also purchase five additional Boeing 737-800 aircraft for Qantas Domestic (for delivery during 2014) and extend the leases on two existing B737-800s this year.

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases - Qantas Group fleet update

 

[markis10]

Yes, but there are also the 5 additional 737s.

In any case, one interpretation of the following, is that all 20 A332s will be on domestic duty, so I am not sure domestic is where any cuts will be:



About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases - Qantas Group fleet update

The additional 737s dont change the picture, as per your example every three 767s are replaced by two A330s and 1 737, if that was the case there needs to be 16 A330s and 8 737s coming into the fleet which is not the case. There is still a reduction in seats from a fleet perspective regardless of the nature of its use, thinking that through it means more route losses unless a stop gap is introduced or phaseout delayed.

 

[oz_mark]

The additional 737s dont change the picture, as per your example every three 767s are replaced by two A330s and 1 737, if that was the case there needs to be 16 A330s and 8 737s coming into the fleet which is not the case. There is still a reduction in seats from a fleet perspective regardless of the nature of its use, thinking that through it means more route losses unless a stop gap is introduced or phaseout delayed.

My example was simply to demonstrate that the swap of planes doesn't have to be a one for one between the 767 and A330. Keep in mind that some of the Qantas fleet planning is from a group perspective, so there just maybe some A320s involved in all of this as well....

 

[markis10]

Keep in mind that some of the Qantas fleet planning is from a group perspective, so there just maybe some A320s involved in all of this as well....

LOL, more likely 777s given its type rating with 787s.

 

[christopherc]

How are Qantas going to retire all of their 767 aircraft by mid-2015 without reducing capacity?

There are 23 767s to retire from the fleet. 5 new A330 have just gone active for Qantas Domestic (1 delivered new and 4 transferred from international) plus there are 11 A330s to come back from Jetstar (should be complete by 2015 if Jetstar has received all of its 14 787s). This means there is 7 less A330s available compared to 767s being retired. There will be 5 new 737s to fill some of this but clearly capacity on domestic will reduce by 2015? The international 767 services will either cease or be replaced by A330/787.

With the 747s, they are now down to 15. They will keep at least 12 around until 2016 and then start replacing with 787-9s. At least 6 (ER version) will stay until 2020 and be replaced by A380s.

I believe all the remaining 747s are owned, not leased, so they may keep more than 12 longer if required, as all of the A330-300s (10 frames) currently on international routes are fully utilised.

No more 747s are due to be retired this year, but 5 further 767s are due to depart.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out..

Keeping the 747's is not a choice guided from the leasing or not. Actually the 747's cost a lot in fuel that's why many airlines need to change to another kind of aircraft.

 

[docjames]

Hourly, only off peak:

SYD-BNE every 30 mins 6-9AM and 5-7PM
SYD-MEL every 15 mins 6.30 to 9AM and 4-6PM and some 30 min ops during the day

If you consider the bay requirements for SYD-MEL alone in the AM, by my reckoning 7 are used for this route alone until 8AM

View attachment 15306

Another 4 for Sydney Brisbane, does not leave much for adding capacity, and not all bays are widebody capable.

Hence why I said "at most hourly".

 

[gwynne]

Sorry to bump an old thread but Looking at a DONE 4 ex-JNB with a 767 flight Honolulu-Sydney in April 2015. Any ideas what jet I am likely to end up on? What is the 767 business seat like? How does it compare to say a domestic business, or an international premium economy which I've previously used?

 

[markis10]

Sorry to bump an old thread but Looking at a DONE 4 ex-JNB with a 767 flight Honolulu-Sydney in April 2015. Any ideas what jet I am likely to end up on? What is the 767 business seat like? How does it compare to say a domestic business, or an international premium economy which I've previously used?

Who knows what you might get in 2015, I doubt it will be a 767.

 

[maninblack]

Sorry to bump an old thread but Looking at a DONE 4 ex-JNB with a 767 flight Honolulu-Sydney in April 2015. Any ideas what jet I am likely to end up on? What is the 767 business seat like? How does it compare to say a domestic business, or an international premium economy which I've previously used?

You are right on the cusp of all of the 767's supposedly being retired but given QF's past performance on this route if there is even one ****ty old clapped out looking 767 still in the fleet, it will be flying to HNL with a 20 year old Dreamtime seat with a new cover.

 

[Limewood]

The J seats Q have on the HNL/SYD run as said the real old non lay type. The last two trips to from HNL booked Y 2nd row exit 35 A/B or J/K I think, had same amount of room just seats narrower and 25% of J price.

 

[mannej]

The J seats Q have on the HNL/SYD run as said the real old non lay type. The last two trips to from HNL booked Y 2nd row exit 35 A/B or J/K I think, had same amount of room just seats narrower and 25% of J price.

Are you sure regarding the pitch? I don't remember the 767 exits apart from the ZX's having that much more room.

Compared to the other players on the direct route, you have the most pitch out of the J seats, but it isn't a bed.

 

[Limewood]

Are you sure regarding the pitch? I don't remember the 767 exits apart from the ZX's having that much more room.

Compared to the other players on the direct route, you have the most pitch out of the J seats, but it isn't a bed.

Yes pitch was excellent in 2nd row exit. was not looking at toilets or those waiting like the 2 from exit seats.

 

[serfty]

Errm ... the Dreamtime seats have 60" pitch, best row 35 can muster would be maybe 38".

 

[mannej]

Errm ... the Dreamtime seats have 60" pitch, best row 35 can muster would be maybe 38".

I believe dreamtime is 50 but agree re row 35...