Brisbane to get parallel runway

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samh004, living on the Gold Coast you will be far better placed to judge this than we 'Mexicans', but given what one of the moderators - either serfty or markis10 - agreed with me in that there is at least some limited willingness of a few passengers to choose between OOL and BNE as a departure or arrival airport, isn't it pretty darn incumbent upon BAC as the BNE lessee to get the public relations correct?

I usually fly North, and there's not a lot of services from OOL that go North, at least not on my preferred airline, where there are none. Prices at OOL have been very attractive, if only I could take them up... but they don't fly where I want to go. The facilities are also a little lacking too, of course ;)

So, I think BAC knows they have OOL beat as OOL is pretty much landlocked. There's also a different clientele that perhaps BAC is happy not to have, though I wouldn't know :lol:
 
And yet if it was specialised equipment that can only be profitably used by a few companies surely it is reasonable to expect them to cover part of the cost? Naturally the companies paying/contributing towards that equipment should reap the greatest benefits from its implementation.

But this is an infrastructure which is:
  • Used by every airline and at fair access (not restricted)
  • Essential to the continued operation of the airport (not to the enhancement of operations of an airline or a set of airlines)
  • Substantially a benefit reaped by the airport itself and indirectly its non-airline partners and stakeholders (i.e. BAC, governments, etc.)

What if Qantas decided to lower the number of flights so that it was unprofitable to actually build the new runway?

That would be completely counterproductive for Qantas to do. This is not like the great grounding a few years ago - it won't achieve the same effect, even if QF move all their operations to OOL. BAC know they have all the airlines in a corner so they are taking the most greedy path they can to unreasonable defray significant portions of the risk for essential infrastructure.

It could be argued that asking them to stump up some money now is an assurance that they will maintain/increase their current usage thus ensuring ongoing income for the airport which is necessary for their continued success.

I see where you're coming from but the counter is that they will raise fees and charges anyway after the runway is built. They are using multiple instruments with the same effect to coerce the same outcome. That's ridiculous.

I can see both sides here and my above comment is intended to further the polemic rather than support either side.

I see where you're getting at and it does explain the other side. Unfortunately, I see the other side (BAC) as being quite unreasonable and unethical in this regard.

VA's attitude is not explicitly stated in the article.


What a great headline, eh? "BAC and VA reach agreement to enhance customer experience". I think the part which has me chuckling the most is
Ongoing runway access for the next 10 years
What is this - as if an airline will invest in operations at an airport and will not get access to the runway as part of the minimum deal.

Unless the BAC are planning to charge per runway in the future, i.e. your runway charge will be $x for the old one, $y for the new one or you can access both for the discounted price of $z. Sheesh........

Another key here is that everyone should have access to the new runway (in fact, both runways) in a fair manner, i.e. no preferential treatment. It should be all part of whatever BAC charges the airlines to use Brisbane Airport. Sure, some airlines have better fit outs at the terminals (i.e. for lounges, dedicated check-in areas, etc.), but these are for the benefit of specific airlines (with little primary gain to BAC) and so of course it makes sense for the airlines to foot the bill for these kinds of improvements.

If VA want to throw more money at BAC to support runway development, that is their prerogative. It is not wrong for them to do so, but it should be made clear that they should never be compelled to do so. It would also not be prima facie right to grant VA any exclusive rights or extraordinary rights (to the significant detriment of other airlines) to BAC facilities - including the new runway - just because of this gesture. (I know the latter is extremely difficult to police but it is still not right). A similar example is EK throwing money at PER in order to accelerate the developments at that airport to support A380 operations.

I wonder if BAC negotiated any money out of the airlines to pay for the new carparks they built. I mean, the airlines don't exactly use them much (except maybe for their employees), but they do support the pax who use the airlines at the airports, so they could've argued it that way, I mean.... (OK, I'll stop being facetious now.....)
 
Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

Ansett did HTI while TAA invested in PSP, the significant thing is this is the first real runway infrastructure built since privatisation of all the airports.
PSP a little out of the way for TAA I would have thought. ;)
PPP? :)
 
Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

On the "Ongoing runway access for the next 10 years" blurb from the BAC/VA deal, I can't imagine VA wants access to the new runway at all, considering where their gates are and the rather long taxi it'll take to get there, unless they're planning to be the first tenant around the other side?
 
Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

What do you mean by OOL being landlocked - why can't OOL expand?
 
Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

What do you mean by OOL being landlocked - why can't OOL expand?


I think that means 'economically'.


there maybe a highway one end and a school at the other end for example.
Canberra is fine, Hobart is not as another example
 
What do you mean by OOL being landlocked - why can't OOL expand?

I think that means 'economically'.


there maybe a highway one end and a school at the other end for example.
Canberra is fine, Hobart is not as another example

OOL is bound on three sides by the Tugun Bypass and the Pacific Highway, along with the Ocean, the odd hill and lake, there is no room to expand.
 

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Would OOL relocate in future? Otherwise they could bury the motorway underground and create more space that way.
 
Would OOL relocate in future? Otherwise they could bury the motorway underground and create more space that way.

They faced huge battles just upgrading to what they have now because of the wetland next door, doubt they'll get permission to just fill it in any time soon ;)
 
They faced huge battles just upgrading to what they have now because of the wetland next door, doubt they'll get permission to just fill it in any time soon ;)

Well that's really going to put a dent in OOL (or Gold Coast for that matter) expanded operations. Given markis10's map they can't really go long and thin. Just might have to find a new site.
 
Well that's really going to put a dent in OOL (or Gold Coast for that matter) expanded operations. Given markis10's map they can't really go long and thin. Just might have to find a new site.

There is no other site AFAIK and I doubt they'd get a second runway themselves considering the environmental impact, housing developments and uneven surface. I'll defer to markis10's judgement but would have thought upgrading the landing system and facilities to better use what they have already is the best plan going forward. They can be good at being small, they don't need 2, 3 runways and a terminal to rival DXB with BNE just a little North and SYD not too far South, do they?
 
There has been a proposal to acquire further land to the south of OOL and extend the runway again but i'm not sure it will ever get up due most of the noise complaints come from the south of the airport now. The installation of an ILS will solve some of OOL's issues if it ever gets decided which runway to build it on.
I could be wrong but I believe that it was the late Keith Williams who built HTI airport.
We will probably never know but it would be interesting to understand the nature of the funding arrangement between BAC and VA for the new runway. Would VA get discounted landing charges once the new runway is operational, preferential treatment with gates and terminals, etc?
 
I could be wrong but I believe that it was the late Keith Williams who built HTI airport.

It was a joint venture with Ansett with Ansett owning it on completion, making it pretty much the only airport in Australia where TAA could not operate. Watching a 767 depart was always interesting.
 
It was a joint venture with Ansett with Ansett owning it on completion, making it pretty much the only airport in Australia where TAA could not operate. Watching a 767 depart was always interesting.
OK thanks for that. You do learn something new every day. I flew into there for my first time on a 767 in 1988. Was interesting being onboard as a passenger also. Some serious braking.
 
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OK thanks for that. You do learn something new every day. I flew into there for my first time on a 767 in 1988. Was interesting being onboard as a passenger also. Some serious braking.

Seeing as we're already off topic, interesting that HTI could take a 767, but ZQN doesn't, considering runway lengths. Sometimes loads are exceptionally high, would think it'd be viable. I'm sure I'm discounting some major factors, but on runway length alone :p
 
Cosnidering BNE's pretty anaemic domestic passenger growth in recent years, it would be fascinating to know how much was just due to economic conditions, or whether the relative closeness and pricing of airfares to or from OOL, the delays (actual and perceived) due to BNE's restricted runway operations, annoyance at high parking and rail fares or any other reasons played a part.

Again, only the airport's research or AFF local experts like samh004 and JohnPhelan are likely to be able to answer.
 
Cosnidering BNE's pretty anaemic domestic passenger growth.
LOL, what anemic growth, passenger movements through Brisbane Airport grew by 5.9 per cent a year over the last 19 years, including annual growth of 7.8 per cent in international movements of Australian residents, 4.9 per cent in overseas visitors visiting Australia and 5.8 per cent in domestic passenger movements according the BITRE. You do realise Brisbane is now the second busiest airport in Australia by aircraft movements???

bne.jpg
 
markis10, I said 'recent' years: as always, that depends on one's definition.

In the five years from 2007 to 2012, BNE's total passenger trips (two way in total, so divide by roughly two to get either departing or arriving passengers) increased 17.8 per cent from 17.89 to 21.08 million.

During the same period, OOL grew from 3.94 to 5.67 million, up 43.9 per cent while MEL grew from 31.84 to 37.01 million, up 27 per cent.

OOL is growing from a much smaller base but at least in the last few years, it has usually outpaced BNE. MEL continues to power ahead of BNE, as befits MEL's status. On current trends, MEL is set to become Australia's largest city.

Aircraft movements is one metric, but the number of passengers moved matters more from the sense of overall economic activity. ATC at BNE must be a challenging task.

samh004, you live in southeast Queensland, post frequently on AFF and seem to know a lot.
 
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