Brisbane to get parallel runway

[a330j]

Press are reporting that construction of parallel runway to begin within weeks. Although agreement on landing fees yet to be reached with QANTAS.

Yahoo! Finance

 

[anat0l]

About. Bloody. Time! :evil: :evil: :evil:

I don't think Qantas does not support a new parallel runway, but it's being reported that way because they won't commit any funds towards it.

Frankly, if the Ms Alroe thinks it's right to demand Qantas or any airline to cough up money to support the construction of the runway, then she can go jump. Just goes to show how much the BAC really is interested in its future development and air travel in Brisbane.

 

[Melburnian1]

Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runway

I disagree that it is fair to expect QF and other airlines to stump up in advance for the construction of the much needed second runway at BNE:

Qantas pressured to stump up Brisbane runway cash

This should be funded by the lessee (Brisbane Airports Corporation) with a user charge applied to each flight once the runway is in use from 2020 or so.

I don't hold a candle for QF's CEO AJ, but on this issue he is 100 per cent correct and doing the right thing by his company and shareholders.

I hope that he does not give in.

We do not know which airlines and at what frequencies will be around using BNE in 2020 or beyond.

VA's attitude is not explicitly stated in the article.

 

[Fruitcake]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

VA's attitude is not explicitly stated in the article.

VA and BAC signed an agreement back in June.
Brisbane Airport Corporation - BAC AND VIRGIN AUSTRALIA REACH AGREEMENT TO ENHANCE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE AT BRISBANE AIRPORT

 

[a330j]

Transferring the risk in advance to the airlines. Can't see the airlines absorbing any increases in landing fees so prices to/from Brisbane likely to rise.

 

[whatmeworry]

Does that mean JohnK will be less delayed?

 

[mono88]

Does that mean JohnK will be less delayed?

He will be more delayed during the construction phase until 2020; and by 2020 there will be more planes to clog the 2 runways so the delays will continue.

 

[UP4014]

2020, . Perhaps they should stat the 3rd runway now as well.

BAC as a CORPORATION needs to get its act together on the timeline plus understand how commercial transaction take place when it comes to funding.

While good news, I'm flabbergasted at BAC.

Matt

 

[UP4014]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

If the company I worked for asked customers to pay for us to build equipment they are going to hire guess what, they'd go buy their own.

I would really love to see QF and Virgin go off and build a new airport. (They probably would if Clive was the head of one of them)

Matt

 

[Hvr]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

And yet if it was specialised equipment that can only be profitably used by a few companies surely it is reasonable to expect them to cover part of the cost? Naturally the companies paying/contributing towards that equipment should reap the greatest benefits from its implementation.

What if Qantas decided to lower the number of flights so that it was unprofitable to actually build the new runway?

It could be argued that asking them to stump up some money now is an assurance that they will maintain/increase their current usage thus ensuring ongoing income for the airport which is necessary for their continued success.

I can see both sides here and my above comment is intended to further the polemic rather than support either side.

 

[anat0l]

Transferring the risk in advance to the airlines. Can't see the airlines absorbing any increases in landing fees so prices to/from Brisbane likely to rise.

That's the point. BAC can increase landing fees and pass on terminal charges to pax with relative impunity. Why the need to secure an advance financial commitment from airlines? They are not doing a favour by the passengers who use the terminal by going straight to the airlines.

Surely BAC has its own reserves that it can fund the effort on their own (or with government commitment in addition). If they don't then what the hell have they been doing with all the money.

Once again, the mind boggles as to whether BAC is really commited to the infrastructure it owns and operates and the stakeholders it provides a service for.

 

[Sprucegoose]

How many runways do they have now?

 

[Sprucegoose]

That's the point. BAC can increase landing fees and pass on terminal charges to pax with relative impunity. Why the need to secure an advance financial commitment from airlines? They are not doing a favour by the passengers who use the terminal by going straight to the airlines.

Surely BAC has its own reserves that it can fund the effort on their own (or with government commitment in addition). If they don't then what the hell have they been doing with all the money.

Once again, the mind boggles as to whether BAC is really commited to the infrastructure it owns and operates and the stakeholders it provides a service for.

How are they regulated and what are their obligations?

 

[samh004]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

This should be funded by the lessee (Brisbane Airports Corporation) with a user charge applied to each flight once the runway is in use from 2020 or so.

For once, I agree with you.

Granted, it's going to cost a lot of money, but they knew when they took up the responsibility as the lessee that they'd need to upgrade facilities, and funnily enough, a runway is a big part of the facilities.

For years, they've expanded the car parks, which probably cost them a lot, but I'm sure they're making a good chunk of money back from them with their ridiculous parking prices, and this should help fund their expansion. I think the don't want to take a loan, because they don't think they should have to, but I recall in the many threads about this issue, maintaining/upgrading of the infrastructure was part of the agreement and if they don't want to do that then their contract should be forfeited... well probably not, but they took the hardline approach not too long ago that if the airlines didn't help, they wouldn't build, so why can't the people of QLD take the approach that they're not entitled to it anymore!

While I appreciate what you're saying Hvr, I think QF's moving of their maintenance facilities to BNE shows their commitment to the airport, the vastness of their QFLink operations in QLD (with many flights from BNE), and while neither of those things needs a second runway to survive, they could ink some commitment to better international utilisation (dependent on the business performing well) easier than trying to extort money I'd think.

Rambling all over the place, they asked Qantas to foot as much as $500 million, of a $1.3 billion project... I'd be expecting Qantas to have shares in BAC if that were the case. I don't think it's fair to pay for nearly a third of something, and then have to pay rent on it (that'll probably have increased by then) when it's complete!

Lets not forget the master plan had a whole lot of business space (and residential/shops?) in between the two runways, and when they develop that land I'm sure they'll be renting it for a nice amount of money too.

Can't remember who's getting the terminal space on the other side? I remember an old plan that would have seen the current domestic terminal continue to curve all the way around to the other side, but I think they've shelved that idea.

Finally, don't they dredge Moreton Bay's shipping channels already? Why can't they enter a deal to use that dredged sand in the reclamation/settlement phase? I"m not saying it'll go cheap, but sounds like a good idea.

 

[Fruitcake]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

I would really love to see QF and Virgin go off and build a new airport. (They probably would if Clive was the head of one of them)

I'm fairly sure Ansett built HTI. Did QF build LZR or just buy it?

 

[samh004]

How many runways do they have now?

They have 2. But they intersect a little, sort of, and one is smaller so it's not an ideal setup.

 

[UP4014]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

And yet if it was specialised equipment that can only be profitably used by a few companies surely it is reasonable to expect them to cover part of the cost? Naturally the companies paying/contributing towards that equipment should reap the greatest benefits from its implementation.

What if Qantas decided to lower the number of flights so that it was unprofitable to actually build the new runway?

It could be argued that asking them to stump up some money now is an assurance that they will maintain/increase their current usage thus ensuring ongoing income for the airport which is necessary for their continued success.

I can see both sides here and my above comment is intended to further the polemic rather than support either side.

****, I guess that's why the Feds subsidise transport, no single company can really afford the capital costs without some help.

Matt

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

My memory is that Sir Reg or Sir Peter built HTI.

samh004, living on the Gold Coast you will be far better placed to judge this than we 'Mexicans', but given what one of the moderators - either serfty or markis10 - agreed with me in that there is at least some limited willingness of a few passengers to choose between OOL and BNE as a departure or arrival airport, isn't it pretty darn incumbent upon BAC as the BNE lessee to get the public relations correct?

The community might regard airlines as 'greedy' (especially when fares go up during school holidays, even though that's just supply and demand, and despite most airlines' low or nil profit margins) but my bet is that the community regards airports as 'greedier' (largely due to the high car parking charges).

 

[markis10]

Re: Most unfair to expect QF and other airlines to pay in advance for BNE's new runwa

I'm fairly sure Ansett built HTI. Did QF build LZR or just buy it?

Ansett did HTI while TAA invested in PSP, the significant thing is this is the first real runway infrastructure built since privatisation of all the airports.

 

[a330j]

That's the point. BAC can increase landing fees and pass on terminal charges to pax with relative impunity. Why the need to secure an advance financial commitment from airlines? They are not doing a favour by the passengers who use the terminal by going straight to the airlines.

Surely BAC has its own reserves that it can fund the effort on their own (or with government commitment in addition). If they don't then what the hell have they been doing with all the money.

Once again, the mind boggles as to whether BAC is really commited to the infrastructure it owns and operates and the stakeholders it provides a service for.

BAC would be committed to its shareholders, not stakeholders. From its point of view it wants to pass as much risk of the project to the user (airlines/businesses). I imagine the main way to do this is by securing a revenue stream to help finance the runway, either through an upfront 'advance' on landing fees possibly with a discount as a carrot or a larger immediate increase in existing landing fees/rents/parking fees. That then commits the airlines to future service levels and reduces the risks to the airport of airlines reducing future services to Brisbane. And it would need to generate an investment return on the runway which it won't do in the short term if it forks over $1b + over 7 years without generating additional revenue.

That said, parking charges at the airport are some of the highest in Australia and I can't imagine charges to the businesses at the airport are any better. Already huge price gouging going on. What happens when you privatise a monopoly.